Hi,

I have loaded the rather excellent freeware Gatwick but have experienced a number of strange issues with the AI and am not sure if the AI is broken or if it is the airport?

1. Aircraft were landing on both 08R and 08L (where 08R should be the only runway in use as 08L is the emergency runway)

2. As an aircraft was coming in to land, the next in the queue for take off was given clearance and pulled onto the runway, so both planes merged together as one landed.

3. The Aircraft that was given clearance to take off got stuck on the runway and just sat there.

4. My aircraft was then given clearance to take off, even though the one in front was still sitting there!

All but item 1 are typical examples of the poor AI implementation. And sometimes, I’m not sure if some bizarre behaviours are an AI problem or an ATC problem. Not that it matters. The result is still something unrealistic. I don’t think anyone can say for sure if this will ever be fixed despite any published development roadmap. 

Item 1 could be fixed if the author disables 08L as a valid runway. It would never be used by AI. 

 

I remember vaguely being told about asobo hiring tons of freelance regular folk to trace out the Contours of airports and to trace the taxiways and jetways 4 said airports.

Judging from the results, I don't think that turned out all that well.

Airplanes at the moment consistently park diagonally or otherwise off-kilter in parking spaces, in such a way that jetways often can't reach them, not to mention pushback trucks also being parked in such a way as to block the sight line of aircraft marshallers...

Planes taxi through each other, hold shorts are often not designated...

The list is awfully long....

Even though I try to give asobo a bit of leeway considering the absolutely massive job of getting all of this stuff right, I have to admit the AI is pretty much of a horror.

Do large numbers of flight simmers not care about realistic AI then? I would find it incredibly annoying to see AI planes parking at the wrong angle, taxiing through each other, and not working properly at runway thresholds because of missing hold shorts etc. Granted the AI in P3D is not perfect, but it works extremely well most of the time on my PC.

32 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

Granted the AI in P3D is not perfect, but it works extremely well most of the time on my PC

I predict they'll get there and P3D/XP are evidence it's doable.  Just not quite at the top of the priorities list.

It’s the priority list that is questionable. I think it’s fair to say projects that generate new revenue is high on the list. I don’t fault them for that. Every business does this. But many things fundamental to simulating flight is still lacking 1.5 years into this software. And some of those were things were functioning better in 18 year old FSX. 

 

There are numerous AI issues which I believe could easily be fixed and in a very short time improve the current AI behaviour by 400%. If only Asobo would either get someone to do it, or it they cannot bothered (which increasingly looks likely - after countless other updates but no AI update) then let others have the code so they can fix it.

Gatwick 08L and 26R is just the Afcad (or equivalent) wrongly attributing active pathways without the author realising it is an inactive (except for emergencies) runway.

But the current AI could be enormously improved with so little effort:

1) Speed the AI up by at least 2x on everything but the actually take off run - and even more on the long taxi routes. That would stop the endless go-arounds.

2). The default AI and other AI packages all seem to have the AI wheels buried into the tarmac by up to 1 foot. This should be easily fixable.

3). All the AI "hovers" at the take off point instead of getting on with take offs. This further delays other AI and causes yet more go-arounds

4). AI push back and docking is painfully slow.

If only the AI speed was given a boost that would be almost halfway there. WHY does Asobo do absolutely nothing about this? In the meantime they have produced countless extra regions, adventures, bush trips, aircraft and scenery, but they STILL WON'T fix a couple of simple AI tweaks. Is it to be bloody minded? Is it to be deliberately neglectful? Or can Asobo simply not be bothered? Either way I find this attitude extraordinary.

Try use real time traffic with https://www.lekseecon.nl

That should eliminate those problems I believe. 

27 minutes ago, Danno said:

It’s the priority list that is questionable. I think it’s fair to say projects that generate new revenue is high on the list. I don’t fault them for that. Every business does this. But many things fundamental to simulating flight is still lacking 1.5 years into this software. And some of those were things were functioning better in 18 year old FSX. 

 

..And one of the better functioning parts was the ATC. Actually more than 20 years ago FSX had better flowing ATC voices. more variety of voices, more naturally sounding sentences, better terminology if still not perfect, and better direction of aircraft. Azure has been a monumental failure and Asobo needs to pull the rug from the Azure team who have proved to be utterly useless when it comes to even understanding what is required let alone implementing it. Asobo might as well re-implement the standard FSX ATC.

The key to all virtual ATC is understanding how to construct the flow and cadences of voices, then designing algorithms to encourage a natural language flow. You cannot get away with stringing together bits of instructions with just full stops and commas. You need very skilled people who understand how to make voices sound natural. Azure clearly does not know how to do this, and Asobo's ATC scripts are very poorly done.

Edited March 5, 20224 yr by robert young

4 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Try use real time traffic with https://www.lekseecon.nl

That should eliminate those problems I believe. 

Look closely at their own video. The runway behaviour is not bad but the taxi movements are even worse than the default AI. They go sideways, turn un-naturally, they are too slow when taxiing and the front wheels are locked giving the impression of skidding everywhere. 

Just now, robert young said:

Look closely at their own video. The runway behaviour is not bad but the taxi movements are even worse than the default AI. They go sideways, turn un-naturally, they are too slow when taxiing and the front wheels are locked giving the impression of skidding everywhere. 

This is fixed in an upcoming update:-

 

1 minute ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

This is fixed in an upcoming update:-

 

Well that's great if it's true. But Asobo has had a year and a half to fix this FUNDAMENTAL part of its own simulator.

3 minutes ago, robert young said:

Well that's great if it's true. But Asobo has had a year and a half to fix this FUNDAMENTAL part of its own simulator.

I don’t hold my breath waiting for Asobo. I do for laminar however, and I am keeping a close eye on that situation. 

1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

Do large numbers of flight simmers not care about realistic AI then? I would find it incredibly annoying to see AI planes parking at the wrong angle, taxiing through each other, and not working properly at runway thresholds because of missing hold shorts etc. Granted the AI in P3D is not perfect, but it works extremely well most of the time on my PC.

You know whut?

Its bad enough that I simply punted, and have banished AI completely for now.

This makes the world a bit dead, but in the meantime, I'm using Latinvfr's static aircraft mod.

And no AI, gives a nice FPS boost.

 

23 minutes ago, robert young said:

But Asobo has had a year and a half to fix this FUNDAMENTAL part of its own simulator.

They haven't dedicated resources to it is all--the current implementation is essentially in placeholder status and has been.  They have a different priority list and it's their call to make.  I predict WHEN they do focus on it they will improve it dramatically.  There are elements of it that are already superior to old FSX ATC, but I do agree the recorded speech used there was the best really of any ATC I've heard just in terms of lack of concotenation.  I really enjoy the fact there is appreciation for realtime traffic incorporated, as this screenshot illustrates.  I don't remember this in FSX because I don't think FSX incorporated real time online traffic.  

I'm United 655 shadowing actual realtime United 2309:

Here UAL2309 has been cleared to land and I'm directed to Go Around, which I promptly didn't!