Real time traffic (IMO) is simply a feature. I don’t care if it’s real or made up (as was FSX) as long as it works properly. Proper taxi speed and instructions, flared landings, go arounds, ramp parking, etc. These are the things needing attention.  And this  includes better ATC.

 

2 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Try use real time traffic with https://www.lekseecon.nl

That should eliminate those problems I believe. 

Sure, but it's not free. If it was a one time payment sure, but monthly egh. And they don't interact with the default ATC.

Edited March 5, 20224 yr by Tuskin38

2 hours ago, robert young said:

Look closely at their own video. The runway behaviour is not bad but the taxi movements are even worse than the default AI. They go sideways, turn un-naturally, they are too slow when taxiing and the front wheels are locked giving the impression of skidding everywhere. 

Considering how bad the built in AI is, I find your comments about RealTraffic/PSXT to be extremely poor.  I often spot aircraft for hours on end and for the most part the aircraft behave as expected.  PSXT learns where the gates are, what aircraft and which airline use them.  If an aircraft parks slightly wonky you will actually see PSXT adjust the aircrafts position to the right place.  When the sim is started, the correct aircraft will occupy the correct gates.  All traffic follows the ADSB position of the real aircraft both on the ground and in the air.

Really amazes me when a couple of talented people get together to create something so amazing, there is always somebody around to criticise what presumably isn't owned.  The paths on the ground may not be perfect all the time, but when you consider the aircraft/airline will be correct, will be in the same position as the aircraft in the real world AND syncs perfectly to real ATC transmissions, it is almost beyond me it can be criticised.

38 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

Sure, but it's not free. If it was a one time payment sure, but monthly egh. And they don't interact with the default ATC.

They interact nicely with Pilot2ATC.  When flying, ATC calls out any aircraft that may conflict.

I personally am quite confused about people against a monthly fee if they want accurate AI aircraft.  When you consider to get real world traffic into MSFS you need...

AIG - FREE
PSXT - FREE
RealTraffic - monthly or yearly fee.

I find the cost VERY small for the benefit gained.

29 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Considering how bad the built in AI is, I find your comments about RealTraffic/PSXT to be extremely poor.  I often spot aircraft for hours on end and for the most part the aircraft behave as expected. 

I think you understand perfectly that my main gripe is about ASOBO, not 3rd parties. I recognise that 3rd parties are trying to compensate or deal with the core AI engine. So my comments are not against those you are promoting, because they are dealing with having to create another layer upon what is already not very good. So apologies. Please don't take it the wrong way.

The solution is for ASOBO to understand that AI is a CORE FEATURE of any flight simulator that could describe itself as such. I'm not knocking those who seek to improve on a base system that is flawed. I'm calling out ASOBO who are inexplicably content to ARROGANTLY ignore the fact that a basic part of their sim is woefully inept, yet after COUNTLESS update opportunities have taken the decision not to bother. Yet they spent presumably countless hundreds of hours developing "Reno Races" which by all accounts very few people have purchased and those that have do not speak kindly about it.

ATC and AI is now a core part of any decent sim. All Asobo needs to do is to pay a little attention to it and fix it. It will in the end sell more copies of MSFS than yet another "discovery" addon or other addons that DEFLECT from core necessities.

Edited March 5, 20224 yr by robert young

7 minutes ago, robert young said:

ATC and AI is now a core part of any decent sim. All Asobo needs to do is to pay a little attention to it and fix it. It will in the end sell more copies of MSFS than yet another "discovery" addon or other addons that DEFLECT from core necessities.

I definitely agree that asobo need to improve the ai on pretty much all levels.  Unfortunately. I think that people arent gonna hold out from buying msfs just because the CURRENT ai implementation is very poor.  I'm not surprised that they focus on projects that will bring a lot of $$.  I could be like a lot of people as I did buy the full reno package (priced the same as the base sim) and microsoft probably profited for the time to develop the reno package.  I wouldnt be surprised if this pattern continues.  I would like to be wrong.  

4 hours ago, robert young said:

1) Speed the AI up by at least 2x on everything but the actually take off run - and even more on the long taxi routes. That would stop the endless go-arounds.

2). The default AI and other AI packages all seem to have the AI wheels buried into the tarmac by up to 1 foot. This should be easily fixable.

3). All the AI "hovers" at the take off point instead of getting on with take offs. This further delays other AI and causes yet more go-arounds

4). AI push back and docking is painfully slow.

If only the AI speed was given a boost that would be almost halfway there. WHY does Asobo do absolutely nothing about this? In the meantime they have produced countless extra regions, adventures, bush trips, aircraft and scenery, but they STILL WON'T fix a couple of simple AI tweaks. Is it to be bloody minded? Is it to be deliberately neglectful? Or can Asobo simply not be bothered? Either way I find this attitude extraordinary.

To be fair, some of these issues also apply to the AI planes in P3D.....

• AI planes can be slow to leave the runway if an exit is not immediately available after rollout
• AI planes waiting at the threshold are not asked to taxi into position and hold until a landing plane exits the runway (during which time another arriving plane may be given landing clearance, even though there would have been enough time for one of the departing planes to, well......depart)
• AI planes waiting to taxi across a runway at a busy airport will probably still be waiting until the Sun runs out of hydrogen fuel in its core
• That incredibly annoying "wait for the plane in front/continue taxi/wait/continue/wait/continue....." that happens when there is an AI plane close behind my own plane

Edited March 5, 20224 yr by Christopher Low

I thought Asobo were primarily graphic/visual game programmers.

Reading this thread suprised me that they are getting some stick for poor AI implementation of atc/traffic managament.

 

I am in no way a programmer so sorry iff a bit dumb question, but i presumed Asobo just

ran with what is legacy code from MS, or are they programming  from 'a blank slate' so to speak.

 

5 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

To be fair, some of these issues also apply to the AI planes in P3D.....

• AI planes can be slow to leave the runway if an exit is not immediately available after rollout
• AI planes waiting at the threshold are not asked to taxi into position and hold until a landing plane exits the runway (during which time another arriving plane may be given landing clearance, even though there would have been enough time for one of the departing planes to, well......depart)
• AI planes waiting to taxi across a runway at a busy airport will probably still be waiting until the Sun runs out of hydrogen fuel in its core
• That incredibly annoying "wait for the plane in front/continue taxi/wait/continue/wait/continue....." that happens when there is an AI plane close behind my own plane

Understood Christopher. But if everything Asobo produces is ok if it is based on stuff that came out more than 20 years ago why not stop just at AI. We could have 1024x768 graphics all over again, and scenery tiles with low res autogen stuck on top! 

The scenery and graphics seems really good by most peoples feedback: screenshots/YT videos etc...

I just dont understand why the AI part of MSFS2020 seems to be behind ..... im might be totally wrong on that assumption

6 hours ago, robert young said:

Understood Christopher. But if everything Asobo produces is ok if it is based on stuff that came out more than 20 years ago why not stop just at AI. We could have 1024x768 graphics all over again, and scenery tiles with low res autogen stuck on top! 

I totally agree with you. I only posted that list of P3D issues with the AI to bring some balance to the Force. All things being considered, I think that P3D does a fine job with respect to AI and ATC.

34 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I totally agree with you. I only posted that list of P3D issues with the AI to bring some balance to the Force. All things being considered, I think that P3D does a fine job with respect to AI and ATC.

Except that this forum and this topic isn’t about that sim

You need to read all of the posts to see the context.

Edited March 6, 20224 yr by Christopher Low

7 hours ago, robert young said:

Understood Christopher. But if everything Asobo produces is ok if it is based on stuff that came out more than 20 years ago why not stop just at AI. We could have 1024x768 graphics all over again, and scenery tiles with low res autogen stuck on top! 

they dont have that many programmers do do all the stuff at the same time, so patience is needed.

that this is for you very important does not mean it is that for everyone, i rather have more realistic weather with different cloud types, this also will come eventually.

 

17 hours ago, robert young said:

Look closely at their own video. The runway behaviour is not bad but the taxi movements are even worse than the default AI. They go sideways, turn un-naturally, they are too slow when taxiing and the front wheels are locked giving the impression of skidding everywhere. 

You can tell a lot about AI aircraft in  PSXT but certainly not that they taxi too slow. They are moving at the exact speed as their real live counterparts!

About the -sometimes- locked front wheel, that is not an PSXT issue but a problem in the AI aircraft package used.