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Daniel Baker

Long Frames/Stutters

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On 3/6/2022 at 6:22 PM, Daniel Baker said:

PHNL also has crazy elevation issues after long flights (certain objects floating, on angles, etc.)  I haven't seen this behaviour at any other complex add-on airports.

I don't own the particular scenery here, but I have had a similar problem with an SBKP scenery I have made my own post about - am wondering if this is a related issue? May I inquire what length  flight results in this being encountered? Should also note I am not using Vector or anything that would affect the scenery in this case.


PUT In the UK.

AMD Ryzen 5 5600x & Radeon RX570 8GB. Prepar3Dv5.3 @1080p

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On 3/9/2022 at 8:43 AM, mpo910 said:

I experienced this when using traffic limiter in FSUIPC ONLY when using AGIAIM AND AIGTC.

Reason: Everytime the FSUIPC Traffic limiter "eliminates" the traffic volume above your liking (set value in FSUIPC = 60), AIGTC will inject them again, and this could cause stutter.

I´m not sure if this is the stutter you describe, but try it without AIGTC for one time please and report back if this helped.

Thanks for this very thorough list of options to try - it's great!

Question: what's AIGTC?  I'm using AIG traffic, but I'm not aware that I'm using AIGTC

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On 3/9/2022 at 7:16 AM, Ray Proudfoot said:

All should be okay. Try the simple thing of deleting your Prepar3d.cfg and let P3D generate a new one. You'll need to set your preferences again.

Also delete the contents of the shaders folder. C:\Users\yourname\AppData\Local\LM\Prepar3D\Shaders.

Strange, I did this and the long frame/stutter remains.

I've tried it without AI, without nVidia control, no Vsync, Vsync, turning the sliders basically all the way left.  I'm starting to think I just can't run 5.3 smoothly no matter what I do...

Maybe it's my mixture of hardware - just completely unbalanced?

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4 hours ago, Daniel Baker said:

Strange, I did this and the long frame/stutter remains.

I've tried it without AI, without nVidia control, no Vsync, Vsync, turning the sliders basically all the way left.  I'm starting to think I just can't run 5.3 smoothly no matter what I do...

Maybe it's my mixture of hardware - just completely unbalanced?

With P3D running go to a FSDT airport and take off. Stutters still present? If so go into Task Manager and select the second tab from the right. It lists all the processes running.

Select Couatl64.exe and right click it. End task. All your FSDT airports will unload and GSX won’t operate.

Do the stutters continue?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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7 hours ago, Daniel Baker said:

Question: what's AIGTC?

AIGAIM is the tool to use to download flightplans (FP files and BGL files based), models and textures.

AIGOCI is the folder where all the files, texures, models, Flightplans based on BGL and FP files) are stored. Do NOT touch this!

AIGTC is the flightlpan (FP) based TrafficController wich injects the traffic directly into your simulator.

You can use AIG it´s traffic without AIGTC running. It´s the way you use your traffic now at the moment. This means, AI Traffic shown in your sim is purely BGL based (just another method) which is causing more "load" on loading Data (Terrain Tiles are also BGL based for instance).

AIGTC is the way to go. AIGTC can be downloaded from AIGAIM Website and has to run after starting the sim. It should be installed at any location as wished, but outside the AIGAIM folder and outside AIGOCI folder. When running AIGTC.EXE it will then inject the traffic as soon as the sim is running. It´s recommended to start AIGTC after the sim runs.

AIGTC does then spawn the FP files based downloaded flightplans (it´s an option to set in AIGAIM settings if you want to use them too, in addition BGL files), your current location in the sim and based on that it, uses exactly these flightplans and location to inject the traffic "live" while you are flying or sitting at any gate. No need for BGL based files anymore, so less load on your system (files loading not rendering loading). 

At the moment AIGTC Flightplans are used in combination with BGL flightsplans. AIGAIM is converting the prior and existing BGL files into FP files. It probably will completely eliminate the BGL method flightplans in future. 

Over the time BGL becomes less and FP files become more available via AIGAIM.

  • So download AIGTC here:
  • AIGTC Software Download Location
  • Install it in any directory of your liking (But not in AIG OCI folder and better not in AIGAIM folder).
  • Set your checkbox in AIGAIM setting to allow usage of FP based flightplans
  • Download/Update flightplans like you used to do
  • Start Sim
  • Start AIGTC and you are up and running

Regards,

Marcus

Edited by mpo910
  • Like 1

Regards,

Marcus P.

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58 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

AIGAIM is the tool to use to download flightplans (FP files and BGL files based), models and textures.

AIGOCI is the folder where all the files, texures, models, Flightplans based on BGL and FP files) are stored. Do NOT touch this!

AIGTC is the flightlpan (FP) based TrafficController wich injects the traffic directly into your simulator.

You can use AIG it´s traffic without AIGTC running. It´s the way you use your traffic now at the moment. This means, AI Traffic shown in your sim is purely BGL based (just another method) which is causing more "load" on loading Data (Terrain Tiles are also BGL based for instance).

AIGTC is the way to go. AIGTC can be downloaded from AIGAIM Website and has to run after starting the sim. It should be installed at any location as wished, but outside the AIGAIM folder and outside AIGOCI folder. When running AIGTC.EXE it will then inject the traffic as soon as the sim is running. It´s recommended to start AIGTC after the sim runs.

AIGTC does then spawn the FP files based downloaded flightplans (it´s an option to set in AIGAIM settings if you want to use them too, in addition BGL files), your current location in the sim and based on that it, uses exactly these flightplans and location to inject the traffic "live" while you are flying or sitting at any gate. No need for BGL based files anymore, so less load on your system (files loading not rendering loading). 

At the moment AIGTC Flightplans are used in combination with BGL flightsplans. AIGAIM is converting the prior and existing BGL files into FP files. It probably will completely eliminate the BGL method flightplans in future. 

Over the time BGL becomes less and FP files become more available via AIGAIM.

  • So download AIGTC here:
  • AIGTC Software Download Location
  • Install it in any directory of your liking (But not in AIG OCI folder and better not in AIGAIM folder).
  • Set your checkbox in AIGAIM setting to allow usage of FP based flightplans
  • Download/Update flightplans like you used to do
  • Start Sim
  • Start AIGTC and you are up and running

Regards,

Marcus

I have it running OK but it has set itself to start automatically with P3D startup. I don't have to do anything.


Intel i7 6700K @4.3. 32gb Gskill 3200 RAM. Z170x Gigabyte m/b. 28" LG HD monitor. Win 10 Home. 500g Samsung 960 as Windows home. 1 Gb Mushkin SSD for P3D. GTX 1080 8gb.

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19 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

With P3D running go to a FSDT airport and take off. Stutters still present? If so go into Task Manager and select the second tab from the right. It lists all the processes running.

Select Couatl64.exe and right click it. End task. All your FSDT airports will unload and GSX won’t operate.

Do the stutters continue?

Yes, the stutters are still present, actually.

What I'm now realizing is that the stutter is there no matter the scenery, or the settings - it just get worse the more complex the scenery is.  Everything runs pretty smoothly, just the long frame/stutter gets more noticeable (longer - from a millisecond to a microsecond).

I'm not sure what this tells us?  Does this realization help to narrow it down at all?

Thanks,

Daniel

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5 hours ago, Daniel Baker said:

I'm not sure what this tells us?  Does this realization help to narrow it down at all?

It tells us that the problem isn’t associated with FSDT products. I understand you control the frame rate using Nvidia CP. If your monitor runs at 60Hz remove the Nvidia setting and see if it improves. VSync still on of course and Unlimited set in P3D.

Once airborne does the frame rate stay at 60 and are there any stutters?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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44 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It tells us that the problem isn’t associated with FSDT products

Of course it isn't and, maybe, now should be a good time to change the thread's subject.

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16 minutes ago, virtuali said:

Of course it isn't and, maybe, now should be a good time to change the thread's subject.

Done. 👍

  • Upvote 1

Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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Yes. I agree on Umberto here.

P3D has an issue with calling or spawning products which use Libraries. And that are a lot of products. ORBX, GSX, Aiports like FlyTampa, FSDreamteam etc.

But it is suggested to use Librabries and that why it isn´t the supplier his products who are causing stutters, it is the way P3D "spawns them" and while searching for Libraries the sim "stops" (freezes) till the search is done, then you see the Airport is rendered, or GSX Objects get rendered, or ORBX TE Objects (they are not all Autogen) gets rendered, etc.

I have raised a ticket at LM and will adress this seperately at the next BETA cycle testing

Regards

Marcus


Regards,

Marcus P.

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21 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

it is the way P3D "spawns them" and while searching for Libraries the sim "stops" (freezes) till the search is done, then you see the Airport is rendered, or GSX Objects get rendered, or ORBX TE Objects (they are not all Autogen) gets rendered, etc.

That might be the case for "Libraries", which might be used by other developers, but it's not the case for FSDT.

Libraries, like static object libraries called by .BGL files, or Autogen libraries are spawned by the sim, with the scenery developer having no control whatsoever over their creation, loading range and destruction. They might play with LODs, but LODs means the object is just not rendered, but is still in memory.

That is especially true for .BGL libraries, because while their .BGL container does have the ability to restrict the Lat/Lon boundaries of the library, many developers find convenient to have their own object library that could be used by sceneries that might be thousands of miles apart, so it's quite common to flag these developer-own global libraries to have NO Lat/Lon boundaries, which means their objects will be available everywhere, which also mean there's less control in the way they use memory or when or how they are spawned. They are in the hands of the sim doing the job right, basically.

This is completely different for FSDT sceneries. We almost never use .BGL libraries, we mainly use Simobjects created programmatically, which means we have complete control over their appearance and their destruction. This means that yes, you might have some stuttering when they are created ( because unfortunately Simobject creation is not happening on a separate thread ) but, since their destruction is under OUR control, you can be 100% sure that, when you fly outside the area of an FSDT airport, which is usually about 12-15NM around the airport center, that object is NOT taking away ANY resources. It's just gone, forever, until we call it again.

This is valid for most of the scenery objects, all GSX jetways and vehicles. While a pause to create objects might seem annoying, it's way better, in the general memory economy of the sim, to let the sim reclaim ALL memory required by those objects when they are not needed. And, one day LM might improve Simobject creation to happen in a separate thread, not stalling the sim while it's happening, so we'd get the best of both worlds: smoother loading and absolute certainty of not wasting memory when an object is not needed anymore.

Edited by virtuali
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9 hours ago, virtuali said:

Of course it isn't and, maybe, now should be a good time to change the thread's subject.

Yes, that is fair, of course.  It's worse at FSDT airports, but not restricted to them.

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