2 hours ago, mSparks said:

yes. plenty, e.g.

didn't look so didn't see" wont excuse you in an NTSB investigation.

Well, for starters, it runs on stable, not broken operating systems, it only goes downhill for MS stuff from there.

yes

Is this a parody post? Are you alright?

24 minutes ago, 2reds2whites said:

Is this a parody post?

Cant tell, did you mean to post something more?

Personally I think you were going for a shoot the messenger not the message post. Which is a pretty solid method of proving me correct. Thnx.

Edited July 20, 20223 yr by mSparks

38 minutes ago, 2reds2whites said:

Is this a parody post? Are you alright?

Tip; never engage with that guy, it's like banging your head on a brick wall. He is one of the biggest detriments to the X-Plane community. 

10 hours ago, Sethos said:

Tip; never engage with that guy, it's like banging your head on a brick wall. He is one of the biggest detriments to the X-Plane community. 

Its simpler than that. the topic is ground scenery and the discussion had come back to the XP12 assets we have so far.

13 hours ago, mSparks said:

yes. plenty, e.g.

"didn't look so didn't see" wont excuse you in an NTSB investigation.

Well, for starters, it runs on stable, not broken operating systems, it only goes downhill for MS stuff from there.

yes

But yes, anyone trying to drag it off topic or troll with one liners/personal insults will be left feeling like they are banging their head against the wall, often to the point of winning themselves a forum holiday, to the benefit of everyone.

Edited July 20, 20223 yr by mSparks

14 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Its simpler than that. the topic is ground scenery and the discussion had come back to the XP12 assets we have so far.

The staged screenshots do look good but the question is really going to be, what does this look like in motion?

I have the feeling that you have access to the XP12 betas so you may know one thing that Laminar so far has suspiciously avoided showing, which is what the ground scenery looks like compared to XP11.

I know Austin said in the video he "hates the roads" in XP11, I wonder what has been done here for XP12.

The same goes for the OSM scenery, the water colors, the way the new clouds interact with terrain, whether or not there is any blending between snowy areas and areas without, etc etc etc.

That's where the rubber meets the road and we still aren't being shown what any of that looks like in the actual simulator.

1 hour ago, Gulfstream said:

what does this look like in motion?

having seen both the videos they were taken from and what they look like in sim

"phenominal" works for me.

Just the trees and finally decent weather visualisations are enough to stiffel any real compaints about what XP11 looks like imho.

1 hour ago, Gulfstream said:

I have the feeling that you have access to the XP12 betas so you may know one thing that Laminar so far has suspiciously avoided showing, which is what the ground scenery looks like compared to XP11.

Jgregory outed me in the snow and ice thread.

Its not that there isnt still work to do - and I really really hope Ben/Sidney cave to peer  pressure and RTX the cockpit gfx "soon".

But the #1 reason they have not shown more things is they arent ready yet, the stuff they have shown is basically ready to ship save "stupid bugs".

Its also plausible a full autogen overhaul comes later "in the XP12 run", several things I want to see are "not going to make it for XP12.0".

This is in absolute stark contrast to the way MS has promoted its visuals and functionality over the years, where they would promote the absolute best circumstances before anything was ready to ship, then when it lands everyone realises 99% of the time it looks nowhere near as good or even similar to the promos.

LR simply doesnt have the luxury of getting away with that BS, they cant afford to and wont on principle pay 1000s of people to troll on forums when they should be working - they are too busy actually working on things they love and get them up in the morning.

 

Edited July 21, 20223 yr by mSparks

Why does Xplane need to compete with MSFS as it is a different market! Xplane is not being offered on Xbox and neither is it trying to be something for everyone with a game/simulator environment!. Sure rendering engines are different but the rendering engine on display has it own draw backs where as xplane is looking to move slowly with a more dynamic and accurate experience. I'd think most people here would rather this than the "I need an RTX4090" to run this simulation situation any day of the week. I am more prone to the DCS approach to simulation with X-plane which yes they take time but they have some brilliant flight models and offer something unique.

31 minutes ago, ianlighting said:

Why does Xplane need to compete with MSFS as it is a different market

Xplane spans multiple markets. 

Its "bread and butter" markets are the commercial and mobile phone markets.

The most lucrative is the home entertainment market which they have targetted/invested in but haven't really broken through yet, they are still in the 10s/100s thousands of sales there instead of the 10s of millions they should be.

@msparks Yes I agree but also Xplane had a different outset to the FSX business model and same with the current MSFS2020 business model and reading through the reply's it becomes apparent that some of our members don't understand how we got here! lol

Anyway I think that X-Plane 12 especially with your work and others will be great and I'm certain that once the release happens it will be of unique value with what is being discussed, I'm personally really looking forward to this release.

After seeing Orbx commitment just adds to the value and I suspect that a number of 3rd parties will drift back to x-plane as the other guy is just too hard to work with and xp offers a much easier work load.

If we look at the possible plans in the future will MS follow Apple with something like the apples studio you never know, X86 is at its end whatever happens I think.

1kw vs about 50w on an apple studio, I just can't see people going down the path of having pc/fan heaters can you and paying the electricity bills lol

Anyway all I will say is I'm ready as I have added a 4TB PCIE 4.0 NVMe which is waiting, MSFS only gets an SSD on my system lol 

Edited July 21, 20223 yr by ianlighting

Given that Austin mentioned use in a (couple?) level D platforms, does anyone know if he or anyone from LR attends trade conferences for that industry? Eg FSEMC?

1 hour ago, ianlighting said:

Anyway I think that X-Plane 12 especially with your work and others will be great and I'm certain that once the release happens it will be of unique value with what is being discussed, I'm personally really looking forward to this release.

I have my doubts. And not just from the grinding wait for ground scenery.

I dont mean that to mean XP12 isnt going to be phenomenal, or even imply I want/expect LR to do anything differently. There is a lot to do, everything takes time.

But from where I stand MSFS has been a failure, it fails to be a great flight simulator (unsurprising, wasnt their objective), it falls well short at being a great game desired and regularly played by 50% or more of people with a steam account (actually disappointing, if not unexpected).

I am a long way from convinced XP12 beats that failure in the home entertainment market in a meaningful way... XP doesnt just need to "compete" with MSFS, it needs to exceed it significantly - if breaking through into the fickle, short attention span, lazy entertainment market is a goal.

IMHO "simple" things like collision detection and other similar staples of home entertainment are the road blocks there.

Put that to the side, and yep, forget about MSFS, PMDG, XBOX, PS5;

XP11 is already best in class, and all the new stuff coming is candy. 

Edited July 21, 20223 yr by mSparks

@msparks I seem to remember saying to yourself on another forum this would be the outcome, I personally cannot see how this can be fixed without releasing a new version and then comes the the big question on what platform huh ? MS ARM with similar form factors of apple loaded with windows 11 lol huh....

Option 1 new version we all have to pay

option 2 New version and we pay subscription

Option 3 something like x box pro where x86 is binned and not only do we pay subscription but also have to an buy an MS system, sounds like Apple huh

Lucky I jumping to Linux huh

I want to be positive and know what your concerns might be as I suffered from raising the concerns on another forum with items like scenery, 3d developers just going awol etc etc huh 😉 but, after seeing the current msfs way I think anything has to be better than this situation of we have list and we might get round to fixing it lol

There always Aerofly FS 4 lol hehehe 😉 

 

Edited July 21, 20223 yr by ianlighting

15 minutes ago, mSparks said:

XP11 is already best in class, and all the new stuff coming is candy. 

This is (among other things) why I still come here. The entertainment factor of that coupled with the hilarious and fact free MSFS bashing is just too entertaining.

17 minutes ago, rka said:

... fact free ...

Facts are lies. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is bliss.

6 minutes ago, rka said:

fact free MSFS bashing is just too entertaining

I'm not "bashing", just pointing out the fact it doesnt make it into lists like:

https://www.gameinformer.com/2022/03/28/the-top-10-xbox-series-x-games

and is about to fall out of lists like:

https://www.ign.com/articles/best-pc-games

(presumably because they arent paying to be in them anymore....)

and never came close to making it to "real" lists like 

https://www.ign.com/articles/steam-reveals-its-best-selling-and-most-played-games-of-2021?amp=1

That is the "home entertainment" market, very strong scenery is absolutely essential to make an entry into those lists, but "not failing" cyberpunk 2077 - or worse, MSFS style - requires virtually flawless delivery in every aspect that makes people happy.