A college or university degree is a door opener.  It opens the door to a position that those without degrees are usually excluded from.

When I was a volunteer at the wildlife refuge every summer we had volunteer college students working off their student loans and I would always tell them that your degree only opens the door.  Once inside demonstrated performance is what gets you ahead.

And even those without degrees can become engineers or accountants through demonstrated performance.

Why did I choose those two?  Because I was a non-degreed development engineer in four companies I worked for.  And my youngest daughter is the CFO of a mortgage copany in Denver with just a high school diploma.

My first was when I worked for General Electric on the Minuteman III program at Hill AFB after I got out of the Air Force.  I started as a technician working for an engineer and was later promoted to test engineer.

The second was a startup telephone interconnect accessories manufacturing company.  I hired on as an engineer' assistant and began designing circuits myself and became a design engineer.

The Third was when I worked for Fairbanks Morse as a scale technician in Denver and ended up designing a weighing system for yellow cake for a uranium mine in Wyoming.

The fourth was when I worked for Storage Technology.  Again I was hired on as an engineer's assistant and began working with the engineer to troubleshoot design problems for test equipment for the manufacturing floor.  I became a development engineer.

My daughter began by forming her own house cleaning company.  She had to learn how to keep the books and withhold taxes from her dozen or so employees.  Then she sold her company and got job in accounting for United Artists Theaters concessions office.  She became the manager of the department and when the degreed accountants in the complained that she had no degree and was promoted over them her manager said she did have a degree, a W-O-R-K.  

She is now the CFO of a mortgage company in Denver and successfully defended her company in tax court.

I'm not downplaying degrees and if you don't have one it's a longer climb to the engineering floor.  But if you demonstrate your abilities and make yourself noticed you can climb up the ladder reserved for those who have degrees.

But in certain fields like research I'm sure an advanced degree is necessary and requires that you have the basic degree first.  But in some fields you can get a degreed position through demonstrated performance.

Noel

OCHWFG!  Just a gentle reminder to keep it civil in any discussions on this subject! 

I have 360 degrees. I'm a circle. 

               O

Fully agree.

I achieved a "Grade 10" (Director) position in my company, but as an inDUHvidual contributor versus a manager. My on-the-job training provided me with knowledge, and I enjoyed the corresponding respect for that knowledge. I never had a degree, but happily let people assume I had one from Stanford. I also met a lot of people who were educated beyond their level of comprehension. However, as you suggest, I was a rare non-degree employee swimming in a pool of high-tech degrees. 

Don't know what its like in the US but greater than half of UK graduates don't work in the field of study. They tend to go for the degree they fancy, might be fun, might be easier, might be trendy. Psychology seems a popular degree despite the fact they don't end up in that field. 

 

               O

😺            😺

31 minutes ago, martin-w said:

They tend to go for the degree they fancy, might be fun, might be easier, might be trendy.

Might prolong their adolescence.

Noel

31 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Don't know what its like in the US but greater than half of UK graduates don't work in the field of study. They tend to go for the degree they fancy, might be fun, might be easier, might be trendy. Psychology seems a popular degree despite the fact they don't end up in that field. 

 

               O

😺            😺

Reminds me of all of the senior class photos in my high school yearbook where they listed their college preferences and what they were going to study.  Liberal Arts and Political Science were the 2 most favored.  I'm sure most wound up sayin' "Ya want fries with that?" 😹

1 hour ago, charliearon said:

OCHWFG

I think I need a degree in internet slang because I have no idea what that means but I do get a bit nervous when there's an "F" involved.

2 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

I think I need a degree in internet slang because I have no idea what that means but I do get a bit nervous when there's an "F" involved.

Interpret how you like! 🙃

53 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Don't know what its like in the US but greater than half of UK graduates don't work in the field of study. They tend to go for the degree they fancy, might be fun, might be easier, might be trendy. Psychology seems a popular degree despite the fact they don't end up in that field. 

I took a double major with a BA in psychology and a BS in computer science. Later an MDiv prior to ordination, followed several years later by a ThD. With the latter and about $6 I could get a free cup of coffee at Starbucks...🤣 

The BA in psychology is frankly worthless, as at a minimum one would require earning a Masters just to qualify as an aide. I only went for the BA in psychology because it offered the requisite amount of philosophy for the later MDiv.

54 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Don't know what its like in the US but greater than half of UK graduates don't work in the field of study.

Even if they choose a "serious" field of study, they may find that, by the time they graduate, the relevant jobs are no longer available.

What about Latin Fr Bill?  My brother left the seminary because he couldn't hack Latin.  

I took two years of Latin at St Ignatius High School.  I didn't find it that difficult but a numbner of my classmates funked it.

"Omnia Gallia in tres partes divisa est"

Please don't reply in Latin because I won't understand a thing you're saying.  Japanese maybe...but not Latin anymore.

Noel

 

The wisest teacher I ever had said that the main purpose of education was to learn how to learn.
It's something that has proved to be true throughout both my working life and my life in general.
I suspect that the possession of a degree is often used by prospective employers only as a filtering device
for job applicants.
I have never had a job that used my degree level qualification, nor do I think that it ever made an application
successful that might otherwise have failed. That is most likely because all of the jobs that I have had required
practical ability, rather than a high educational standard.
It is an unwise employer who would rely solely on such a qualification, without also assessing the candidate's
ability to actually do the job.
As mentioned already, in the UK, there are tens of thousands of graduates to choose from, who have graduated
in all kinds of fields, many of which have little or no direct relevance to the job in question.
At the very least though, possession of a degree does indicate that a candidate has the ability to absorb and then
apply knowledge, even if only to pass an exam.
On the other hand, as I am sure most of us have, during my working life, I have been managed by some "educated idiots",
who, while having all of the necessary paper qualifications, did not possess an ounce of common sense.

 

I got my first degree in Economics from Rutgers. After I graduated, I went door to door selling Electrolux vacuums. After I moved from NJ to Metro Chicago a year after I graduated, I went back to school for an accounting degree, and then later on got a masters degree in taxation. Although I did use my accounting degree to become a CPA and pursue a career in public accounting, it is one of the most versatile degrees you can get. There are many folks with accounting degrees doing a whole host of different careers.

Cheers, Pete

18 minutes ago, birdguy said:

What about Latin Fr Bill?  My brother left the seminary because he couldn't hack Latin.  

Well, fortunately post Vat II fluency in Latin is no longer required. Granted, if one wished to move beyond being a simple parish priest, then Latin was most definitely required. While in seminary however I did at least learn how to properly pronounce Latin, for those rare occasions when having a Latin Mass.