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Treetops45

Real World/ Real Time Airport Activity in MSFS??

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3 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Like already mentioned default Live Traffic has flight plans from Flightaware. However no liveries, hence you will see generic airliners that are pretty immersion breaking. Many of us are using AIG for liveries and airplane models. These can be used together with the default Live Traffic, or with offline flight plans via AIG's own Traffic Controller. Others are using RealTraffic. There are pros and cons with each of the different methods. 

There's also another option which is Aerosoft Simple Traffic, which uses real world liveries, but with the default limited airplane models. 

Can you please outline the pros/cons? I’m looking to implement an immersive AI solution and would love to learn from your wisdom. 🙂

Edited by Virtual-Chris

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4 hours ago, jrw4 said:

It seems like whatever system MSFS uses for the traffic, ADS-B coverage is poor at best. Right now at the height of the morning rush hour at KLGA, for example, there are two incoming flights for runway 22, but nothing departing or on the ground. Coverage may be especially poor on the ground due to limitations of radio reception, but something similar was observed at KATL a few minutes ago.

 It doesn't use real time positioning in any way at all. The real time traffic option in msfs is just using the Flight Aware  flightplan schedule info. The traffic will not follow sids, stars, airways or the same altitudes as their real world counterparts.


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4 hours ago, somiller said:

You neglected to mention this part in your post above:

"And with AIG textures and models installed I was seeing the correct models and liveries for all planes except one that showed up with a different livery."

So out-of-the-box MSFS doesn't provide realistic traffic because they don't include realistic liveries.

Who said anything about realistic traffic? The person I was quoting said  (and I quote again) "the MSF team said there would be live traffic based on real aircraft".

We have live traffic BASED on real aircraft, you can clearly hear the real callsigns in ATC and they follow the real world schedules. I didn't say we have realistic traffic. Did you really expect to have liveries and models for all the world airlines in default MSFS? 🙄


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4 hours ago, Treetops45 said:

What MSFS Traffic settings are you using, & Data settings?

Thanks

T45

For traffic I have "Real-time online" with "Ground aircraft density" set to zero. In data I have "Live real-world air traffic" ON.

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Alvega

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1 hour ago, Dave_YVR said:

The traffic will not follow sids, stars, airways or the same altitudes as their real world counterparts.

In between departure and arrival phases, it follows the flightaware data exactly, altitude, airways, speed, and position, just at a varying amount of minutes behind. It's moved by the sim similar to PSXseeCon injected traffic, so any program that lets to see it's data (like LNM) will register the air speed as 0, as it's technically not moving it's being dragged. During Arrival and Departure phases it's taken over by the in-sim AI.

 

For example, last year there was a NavCanada CRJ doing ILS approach tests at an airport near me, the plane in sim followed the aircraft's movement as it appeared on Flight Aware and IRL (I could see it from my window), it was about 5-10 minutes behind, but it still matched. It would descend towards the runway, then ascend, do a loop an repeat. I followed it with the sim drone camera, and watched it on LittleNavMap and compared to flight aware.

Edited by Tuskin38
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2 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

You're completely wrong there. In between departure and arrival phases, it follows the flightaware data exactly, altitude, airways, speed.

But during Arrival and Departure phases it's taken over by the in-sim AI.

Only on departure phase. On arrival they still follow Flightaware, landing on the same runway the real ones are landing and not on the active runway according to ATC. So sometimes (with 0 or near 0 wind) ATC assigns one runway for your departure and the AI are landing on the opposite runway because they are following Flightaware.

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Alvega

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The render range for Live traffic is also only around 40-50 Miles, not as far distance as offline traffic.

j6rWpl7.png

 

It also doesn't show planes that lack a planned arrival airport in Flightaware I think, which is why a lot of GA planes don't show up.

Edited by Tuskin38

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3 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Can you please outline the pros/cons?

Simple Traffic by Aerosoft

+ liveries for over 175 real-world airlines

+ simple installation

- uses MSFS default AI models which are VERY basic (twin and four-engine jet, regional-jet)

- uses MSFS AI traffic behaviour i.e. some ridiculous airplane movement in the air and on the ground

- payware, currently €12.50 at aerosoft.com

AIG

+ huge selection of real-world airline liveries and flight plans (currently ~1400 flight plans)

+ uses it's own models, hence you will see 737s, A320s, 747s, 777s, A380s and so on

+ can be used with MSFS Live AI traffic or inject AI traffic using it's own software

+ freeware

+ great support from developer, new versions of software constantly being released

- installation uses a not so intuitive user interface

- flight plans are not real-time but offline, can be quite outdated

- the traffic injection software has been prone to CTDs

- uses MSFS AI traffic behaviour i.e. some ridiculous airplane movement in the air and on the ground

RealTraffic

+ uses data from multiple international ADS-B and multilateration networks to obtain information about other airplanes in realtime

+ hence more realistic aircraft movements in the air and on the ground

+ includes GA, gliders, military aircraft and helicopters

- quite pricey at $180 annually (one month $20)

- installation not the most straightforward (works in combination with freeware software PSXT)

- AI airplane movements can be jerky due to update time 

- will have to install liveries package (e.g. AIG)

- AI aircraft not controlled by MSFS ATC

...

My two cents: I've tried all the options and overall find AIG the one that works best for me. Like I said the installation can be somewhat cumbersome, but there are great video tutorials out there, and I'm sure a lot of AVSIM members will be ready to assist with any issues 🙂 

Edited by Cpt_Piett
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I am with Alvega.

I fly mainly in the Europe and see plenty of live traffic when flying, usually with a slight time delay of maybe 10 or 15 minutes. Also plenty of liveries match the carriers eg, BA, Ryanair and Easyjet to name three. Plenty in the USA too.

Not perfection but better than all the other online flyers beating up the runway etc.

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Barry Wells

 

 

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the bottom linei is that we need a good traffic program.  For FSX I used Ultimate Traffic 2, and it worked fine.  U had real traffic, and real schedules planes departing and leaving at right times.


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MSFS full game 47,95 $,  realtraffic addon 180 $ per year ........that's absolutelly crazy

For me best option is  AIG

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What I'm really hoping for (although expectations are not high) is that Asobo prioritize to sort out the ridiculous AI behaviour e.g. airplanes spinning around on taxiways. 


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Unfortunately, and on numerous occasions, I have been making my little criticism, sometimes angry and sometimes with a sense of humor, about how Microsoft Asobo has sold a product that later was not such, in the sense that there is no real air traffic.
The advertising was misleading, and although the simulator is beautiful, the real air traffic they advertise to sell: Does not exist.
On the other hand, PSXT, AIG and Reatraffic have worked for free, solving Asobo's pain and (in my humble opinion) taking advantage of the kindness of users who, full of passion, sometimes don't mind waiting.
The product sold is beautiful, but it is a sophisticated beta, that's why new betas are "beta beta" 🙂 .
Air traffic has ridiculous movements and is conspicuous by its non-existence.
I was sold a product without part of the product.
Thanks to the developers who are patiently looking for a solution.
It is as if the clouds, suddenly, were not clouds.

A simulator simulates reality.
Reality has airports full of planes and skies full of planes.
Air traffic is the jewel in the crown for many users.

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13 minutes ago, abranpuko said:

the real air traffic they advertise to sell: Does not exist.

Yes it does. They never promised real world liveries or models for the launch of the sim.

None of the advertising they did for live traffic was misleading. The official footage of online traffic that they showed before launch used the same generic models we have now. 

All these planes are MSFS live traffic.

pAEUVKG.png

C9bfJcA.png

Edited by Tuskin38
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12 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

 

My two cents: I've tried all the options and overall find AIG the one that works best for me. Like I said the installation can be somewhat cumbersome, but there are great video tutorials out there, and I'm sure a lot of AVSIM members will be ready to assist with any issues 🙂 

Thank you for that great run-down. I’m planning to use AIG. Do you suggest using the MSFS AI traffic or the AIG injector?

Does the default ATC chat with the AI traffic to liven up the radio?  What about Pilot2ATC? That’s another add-on I’m considering. 

Cheers!

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