In Alabama, where both dave2013 and I live, grid tie gets complicated.  Alabama Power, the states largest utility, is allowed to charge people who choose to have panels and be grid tied (I make the assumption that they don't charge unless you are grid tied),  they are allowed to charge $5.42 per kiloWatt of installed capacity so for a 17KW system that would be $92.14 per month.  thats $1,106 each year just in fees.

Batteries are supposed to bear(sic?) the brunt of large loads because they can.  Even my two batteries (24V 200Ah, each 100Amp continuous for 1 hour) could supply 4800W continuously for 1 hour.  The combined costs of the two batteries was about $1700.  Solar capacity varies all over the place.  Batteries regulate the capacity and loads should be adjusted for your comfort.  Like if theres three cans of generic black and white spaghetti in the basement and it has to last a week, you make it last.

I've been trying to figure out if I could make part of the house solar/battery powered with the big A/C kept on the grid.  My coop charges me $50 a month just for existing and I havent even begun to find out if anything I may want to do is possible (legally)(financially)

Edited August 29, 20223 yr by sightseer

I watched a video tour of a totally off-grid $26 million dollar mansion two days ago. Check out the totally insane solar panel system! Some stats on the mansion:

Listing Price: $25,900,000

6 Bedrooms, 6.5 Baths

12,377 sq ft interior space / (1150 sqm)

49.11 acre lot / (198741 sqm)

Helicopter pad!

Perfectly situated on the edge of national forest land, this modern mountain estate offers the rare opportunity to live off the grid in ultimate luxury. No expense was spared in the 4 year build of this incredible cabin. With nearly fifty acres, including four additional building lots with separate Tax IDs, this property provides the ideal opportunity to create your own family compound or sell off some of the lots.

The home was thoughtfully designed to seamlessly blend the original cabin with a massive addition that was completed in 2022 by Magleby Construction. The inspired design is complimented by state-of-the-art components including a Savant smart-home technology system, power supplied by an extensive 41 kilowatt solar array (including a commercial backup generator), nearly 300 kilowatt hours of battery backup, six 1,000-gallon propane tanks, and an extensive commercial water filtration system that produces some of the most exceptional water you will ever taste with over 1,000 gallons of water storage.

Well rats! I was ready to break out my check book and...  it has been sold! 🤣

 

12 hours ago, dave2013 said:

the weak point in the system due to their cost and lifespan.  I'm sure they will get better and hopefully come down in price

 

If you look after your battery they say 25 years + is feasible.

LFP will be great when it's available for home batteries. Currently just cars. (New Model Y currently).

The BYD blade LFP battery is very safe, even nail penetration doesn't cause a fire apparently. And the lifespan is 4 to 5 times longer. 

Model Y with Blade batteries will be delivered in December apparently.

 

Edit: Okay, with a bit of Googling it looks like LFP batteries for the home are already available, with double the cycle life of a Tesla Powerwall.

 

Edited August 29, 20223 yr by martin-w

18 hours ago, sightseer said:

No average house needs or could use 17kW

Domestic installations in the UK are restricted to 4kW. That’s generally 16 panels with 250W capability.

Holy cow!!  @dave2013 I just went to Tesla and priced out my exact system out of curiosity.  It has more than doubled in price but the credits are also much higher so it comes out to ~1/3 more than what I paid. 

No wonder you were so confused mine was so cheap!!  I guess it's pretty much doubled in 2 years since I installed.  

Without Powerwalls:

16.80 kW Solar Panels

$38,976

Cash Price

$38,976

Federal Tax Credit

-$7,812

Solar Renewable Energy Credit

-$12,936

Price After Potential Incentives

$18,228

Excluding sales tax and including installation

With Powerwalls:

16.80 kW Solar Panels

$38,976

2 Powerwall Batteries

$18,500

Cash Price

$57,476

Federal Tax Credit

-$13,362

Solar Renewable Energy Credit

-$12,936

Price After Potential Incentives

$31,178

Excluding sales tax and including installation

@psolk  Do you know if New Jersey residents are allowed to construct and use their own battery banks?  My two batteries cost about $1700 total.  Together they provide at least 4800Wh of capacity.  They are LiFePo4 with a 5 year warranty and are expected to last 10 years.  When I looked at the Tesla firewall, it seemed a bit expensive for the capacity.  There are other brands available as well that beat Tesla the last time I checked.  Building your own seems cheapest.

15 hours ago, sightseer said:

Building your own seems cheapest.

 

I've noticed quite a few YouTube videos relating to building your own battery system, all US based.

Unfortunately we don't have that option in the UK/British Isles, as our electrical regulations are very stringent. 

 

5 hours ago, martin-w said:

I've noticed quite a few YouTube videos relating to building your own battery system, all US based.

Unfortunately we don't have that option in the UK/British Isles, as our electrical regulations are very stringent. 

 

I'm not sure you're correct about that.  Just two days ago I watched a video by a guy in the UK demonstrating an Eco-Worthy kit that he bought and whether he could power his small office with it.  To my surprise he could... don't know what the long term situation is though as it was more of a "guy gets paid to sell stuff" kind of review imo.

I think you'll notice that none of the people building their own stuff are grid tied.  Mine is a portable generator for the most part.  If someone here in the US wanted to do major electrical work that involved the grid, it would have to be inspected and some of it, I am sure, would be required to be done by an electrician.  I just dont know if a solar installer would allow a homeowner to build/maintain their own battery bank.

 

23 hours ago, sightseer said:

@psolk  Do you know if New Jersey residents are allowed to construct and use their own battery banks?  My two batteries cost about $1700 total.  Together they provide at least 4800Wh of capacity.  They are LiFePo4 with a 5 year warranty and are expected to last 10 years.  When I looked at the Tesla firewall, it seemed a bit expensive for the capacity.  There are other brands available as well that beat Tesla the last time I checked.  Building your own seems cheapest.

I'm going to look into it!  

Is this for real?

My mum owns a small café in Leicester. Her electricity bill has just jumped from £10k ($12k) a year to £55k ($64k) a year. She is working out her options but more than likely she will be forced to close.

Arrived at work tonight to be told “we might have to shut the shop” last week the electric bill came in 10 x dearer today the gas came in, from £900 to £10,058.59 it’s a small family run business here since 1982 this would be tragic!

"Dorset pub closes after £58,000 increase in utility costs."

Firebrick Brasserie. Lauder, United Kingdom. Had to close yesterday FOREVER, b/c of energy prices in the UK. "energy prices that companies are charging - there is no price cap for businesses!!- have meant it is no longer sustainable for us to continue."

Many more here...

Wow!

 

21 hours ago, sightseer said:

I'm not sure you're correct about that.  Just two days ago I watched a video by a guy in the UK demonstrating an Eco-Worthy kit that he bought and whether he could power his small office with it.  To my surprise he could... don't know what the long term situation is though as it was more of a "guy gets paid to sell stuff" kind of review imo.

I think you'll notice that none of the people building their own stuff are grid tied.  Mine is a portable generator for the most part.  If someone here in the US wanted to do major electrical work that involved the grid, it would have to be inspected and some of it, I am sure, would be required to be done by an electrician.  I just dont know if a solar installer would allow a homeowner to build/maintain their own battery bank.

 

 

In the UK, if the guy is intending to power his office with it and run a radial or ring final circuit, it would still need to comply with Part P of the Building Regulations. And Part P includes notifiable and non-notifiable work. Powering an office with a new circuit would be notifiable work, regardless of not being connected to the rest of the property or grid tied. He could do it himself, but it would need to be checked, tested and sighed off by a qualified electrician and certificates supplied. 

Do you have a link to that video Dave? 

I'm not very knowledgeable on how this would work in the UK/British Isles to be honest, whether you could build your own battery from scratch as per the US YouTube videos. Might be that you could as long as the battery and the circuit it powered passed an EICR. 

 

Edit: Believe it or not, that Eco-Worthy video just appeared in my recommendations. Its a 12 volt system. 😀 Low voltage so no issue with building regulations certification.

 

 

Edited August 31, 20223 yr by martin-w

On 8/29/2022 at 2:32 AM, sightseer said:

Alabama Power, the states largest utility, is allowed to charge people who choose to have panels and be grid tied (I make the assumption that they don't charge unless you are grid tied),  they are allowed to charge $5.42 per kiloWatt of installed capacity so for a 17KW system that would be $92.14 per month.  thats $1,106 each year just in fees.

 

How do they justify that? Essentially they are changing you for your own power. And are you feeding excess power generated back into the grid? If so, do they pay you for it? Sounds utterly criminal to me. 

6 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

How do they justify that? Essentially they are changing you for your own power. And are you feeding excess power generated back into the grid? If so, do they pay you for it? Sounds utterly criminal to me. 

I don't know how they justify that and I don't know if they pay you for your generated power.  As I said before, I've contacted no one about getting more serious with a solar install.  I only know that some places are more favorable for solar than others.  In some places they encourage solar with rebates and such and in others they discourage solar by allowing penalties.(personal solar).

But I'm glad you found that video.  There are a number of companies selling 'solar generators' and many of them are using less safe lithium polymer batteries and they provide less capacity for much more money than what a person can build on their own. 

Edited August 31, 20223 yr by sightseer