On 9/6/2022 at 2:34 PM, birdguy said:

 

I suppose EVs will improve in the future but for now no thanks.  Maybe a small one for in town use and the ICE for out of town trips.

Noel

 

Here you go Noel, a Mercedes EV with 1200 KM range. What's that, 750 miles or something like that. Be available in 2023.

Expensive of course but don't worry, when I win a few million on the lottery I'll send you the dosh. 😁

 

 

Edited September 7, 20223 yr by martin-w

5 hours ago, martin-w said:

Electrons for the win

Electrons are awesome.  They do so much useful work and have transformed society.

My question is this: where are all the extra electrons to charge millions of EVs, not to mention those that will be needed to heat buildings, going to come from?

https://time.com/6209272/europes-energy-crisis-getting-worse/

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-08-26/european-energy-crisis-listening-to-electricity-traders-is-very-very-scary

Looks like most of them were coming from fossil fuels supplied by you-know-who.

Dave

8 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Electrons are awesome.  They do so much useful work and have transformed society.

My question is this: where are all the extra electrons to charge millions of EVs

 

Most developed nations can cope easily acording to this article. But it requires proper management.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/

"One of the most frequent concerns you will see from electric vehicle haters is that the electricity grid can’t possibly cope with all cars becoming EVs. However, they haven’t done the math properly. The grids in most developed nations will be just fine, so long as the demand is properly management. Here’s how."

Edited September 7, 20223 yr by martin-w

48 minutes ago, martin-w said:

so long as the demand is properly management.

Well, up until recently the line was:" there will be no problem - electrical grids can handle the additional load of charging EVs".  That was the response.  There are youtube videos of some pro-EV guys calculating the additional load and current capacity and claiming that there was more than enough capacity.  Well, that's obviously not true in many places.  California just issued a warning and explicitly asked people not to charge their EVs to reduce electricity loads.  Where's all the extra capacity?  I won't even mention Europe.

But you answered the question differently this time by adding the caveat "so long as demand is properly managed".  This translates to restrictions on consumption by forcibly setting thermostats to 26-27C in the summer and 12-13C in the winter, plus only being able to charge your EV when the govt. authorities say you can.  I can post links to articles about this if you like.  They're already doing it in Europe and California.  In Colorado some people with "smart" thermostats caught the utilities forcing their temperature setting lower or higher when demand increased.

Anyway, you keep moving the goal posts, which makes it impossible for the opposing side to win an argument.

Dave

As heating and cooling and other creature comforts become issues to make room for EVs and who knows what other technologies await us in the future controlling energy use is going to have to have priorities.  This is something the people are going to have to agree on.  If they fail to come to agreement the priorities will be mandated.

Mankind does not have a good track record on preparing for the future.  How do we change that?

79 to 82 degrees is the comfort zone for my wife and I at our advanced age.  That means we have no problem setting the air conditioner in that range but we do need more natural gas for heating in the winter.

Noel

Edited September 7, 20223 yr by birdguy

The current situation in California's Big Valley. Which is that huge green valley you see running the length of California, about half the area of the State. It's 106 today. This year's average about 3 degrees hotter than normal. In the Big Valley (San Juaquin) typically 15 to 20 days a year over 100 degrees.

My local newspaper says a nearby small town lost all electricity because of a blackout yesterday. The power grid was overloaded. There have been several of these 'rolling blackouts' every day recently, all over the State.

Not so very long ago, for the first time in history, the Governor of California was recalled because of these power blackouts. That was the biggest issue for the recall, by far.

Certain ecology organizations got California's planned nuclear power plants scrapped, and they shut down plans to build hydroelectric dams (e.g. on the Merced river). The result: exit Gov. Gray Davis by recall petition and election. His party had way more registered voters but it did not matter.

Currently there is likely to be even more blackouts, and angry citizenry, to say the least. California's last nuclear plant is also right now being closed.

Unlike any other of the 50 States, California has a super heavy density of automobile traffic. Tens of millions of cars all in one State. If these cars had to now be electrically powered, it would be a total catastrophe. Almost nobody in their right mind here wants to commute using crowded public transportation instead of private cars.

The puzzle is not insolvable. Nuclear power, our friend the atom. But the Sierra Club etc. isn't going to let that happen. And the same 'green' forces shut down building more hydro electric dams (clean energy to be sure).

We live in this hot part of California, in that valley, and our electricity bill this summer is averaging $250 a month. Chump change. Nothing. But we live downstream from a hydro dam across a big river. The infrastructure is very cheap to operate and repair. Nature provides the fuel (a river running down from melting mountain snow). Our local electrical company is rolling in cash income, despite charging these small fees. In the winter, our electricity monthly bill is about $50.

EDIT: In the summer, we have the air conditioner running 24 hours every day. It's off in the winter.

Edited September 7, 20223 yr by Fielder

On 9/6/2022 at 12:48 AM, martin-w said:

I'll bet this topic goes south and get locked

I'm surprised that it hasn't yet.

5 hours ago, martin-w said:

Most developed nations can cope easily acording to this article. But it requires proper management.

Most utilities have already been planning for EVs. See Myth #7 here: https://www.bchydro.com/news/conservation/2021/ev-myths-busted.html

5 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Looks like most of them were coming from fossil fuels supplied by you-know-who.

Not in BC, Canada: more than 90% of our electricity is generated by dams. Source: https://www.bchydro.com/energy-in-bc/operations/generation.html

7 hours ago, martin-w said:

The grids in most developed nations will be just fine, so long as the demand is properly management. Here’s how."

I agree with you on that one.... Heres the how - Just like water restrictions, electrical restrictions for charging your EV will be restricted to mondays - wednesdays - fridays + sundays betwen the hours of 6am- 7am and 9pm to midnight.Any charging of electrical vehicles outside of these hours will be sublect to a fine, increasing with each offense.  

Edited September 7, 20223 yr by Garys

8 hours ago, JRMurray said:

I'm surprised that it hasn't yet.

Now that a post above yours has drifted into political territory, it’s time.

Besides, we’ve debated this same topic how many times now? Same people, same debate.