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RFields5421

DX10 on Win XP possible?

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>A group of hackers is developing a DX10 compatibility hack>for XP. Not that I'm a fan of hacks of this kind, but it seems>that the statement 'DX10 cannot run on XP, it's part of the>Vista architecture' may not be true after all.>>Read more here:>http://www.simpilotnet.com/index.php?optio...tion=view&id=45>>Cheers,>Christian>Interesting! As the article says though, MS won't take this lying down!! They've got too much invested in Vista! DX10 was the dangling carat to get people to switch! If the public can get it with WinXP, they may be less likely to make the move right now, and not have to deal with Vista's other issues like DRM! For this reason it's unlikely MS would make an official DX10 for XP, atleast not in the short run. Their lawyers will probably attempt to nip this in the bud, which of course will probably be impossible, since you have to find the hackers first. Anyone though using a hacked DX10 in WinXP will probably kiss all their MS support for their Win XP down the drain! Once MS identifies a system so configured they may refuse anymore Window's Updates, for copyright infringement and EULA violations. They can easily do this by adding a check in their "Genuine Advantage" module which validates the Windows installation.

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Sell your MS stock now, cause if they get this working the effects will be huge.

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I'm as skeptical with M$'s motives to making DX10 Vista-only as the next guy, but if you notice the Alky architecture explained by Falling Leaf, they are basically replacing the platform API dlls where necessary. So this wouldn't necessarily destroy Phil's argument of "XP + DX10 isn't XP anymore". Specifically, he may be able to fairly state that "XP + Alky isn't XP anymore" depending upon how involved the platform API replacements are.I ran across this before 2 concerns came to my mind.1) In a method not completely uncomparable to your TileProxy, they are inserting and extra layer of code. Granted, the extra layer likely isn't going to be something comparatively more demanding as TileProxy is by going to download files off of the net instead of just grabbing them from the local harddrive. Still, the project would necessarily require at least some inefficiencies incurred by Alky's translations... the question is just how much?2) DX10 is built upon the Vista's WDDM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Display_Driver_Model). My sketchy understanding of all of this is that many of issues ATI and NVIDIA have had with getting video drivers to work well with Vista is centered on the WDDM. Assuming the WDDM model is essential to at least some DX10 calls, Alky would effectively be bringing WDDM emulation to XP-- can this really be done without this low-level driver work the vendors did for Vista? When Phil talked about the ability to DX10 to efficiently issue D3D calls from a secondary thread (core), I suspect this is mostly to do with the new WDDM. If so, will Alky really be able enable this behavior on XP without the help of corresonding gfx driver code? Or will some facets of DX10 such as this perform very poorly or not at all with Alky?In any case, it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

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Also, notice this is a for-profit company that is taking pre-orders on unreleased and unproven code. The cynic in me is open to the idea that perhaps some dishonest people could be trying to cash in on frustration with M$.

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I've read everything on the fallingleaf site and nowhere do I see them claiming to make DX10 available/ run on Windows XP.What their information describes is making DX-10 only games "think" that the Windows XP computer is running DX-10 when it's really running DX-9.Now, there is definitely a market for a product like that.But FSX isn't one of the products it will benefit since it runs on XP just fine.

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>and EULA violations. They can easily do this by adding a check>in their "Genuine Advantage" module which validates the>Windows installation. Well, in that case, if one was considering a hack to run DX10 in XP they'd probably also consider the hack to bypass WGA. Visit the Virtual Pilot's Centerwww.flightadventures.comhttp://www.hifisim.com/Active Sky V6 Proud SupporterRadar Contact Supporter: http://www.jdtllc.com/

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>I've read everything on the fallingleaf site and nowhere do I>see them claiming to make DX10 available/ run on Windows XP.Good catch.

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Interesting news, but I think it would be extremely ill-advised to start installing major 'hacks' like this on your system.The O/S is like a human body: you alter one part and it affects something else.Who knows how many new problems you could induce by installing a major hack such as this.Besides, you can get Vista Home Premium OEM for pretty darn cheap.So if you assign a dollar value to your time, you could probably buy a legit copy of Vista several times over if you factor in all the time you will likely spend trying to figure out all the problems that this 'Hack' will induce on your system.Bryan

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pointless I say... the world must upgrade eventually, and the only way bugs will be worked out is by people using the upgrades... So if everyone wants to stick with XP, go for it... but it will only last so long...

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The way they describe it the Alky Library is not a 'hack'.It doesn't appear to change any .dll or other core OS files.It simply intercepts API calls and redirects them.This enables us to redirect API requests to existing platform functionality or custom implementations as needed.You may well have something like this on your computer right now - printers install crap which intercepts calls all the time.That's basically how emulators like an IBM 3270 or SoftWindows for the MAC work.There is a definite, but limited market for this type program.With 'computer' games now at or near outselling music CD's in total $ in the US, there will be many people who want the latest game, but not able to upgrade their comuputes.Note that no promises about performance are made.One reason developers are making games like Halo2 and Shadowrun would make their games DX-10 only and Vista only is their computer needs are so much higher than the typical XP system.It's not that the developer is forcing people to Vista - but that they don't want the complaints, negative publicity and support hassle of dealing with the slower (XP) computers.Sound like the FSX issues on FS2004 computers to anyone ??

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Sadly, this "upgrade into the future" is what is largely pointless. I do agree with your basic argument, when real progress is demonstrated, but XP does everything useful that Vista Does...its stable, and the vista added features are not interesting to me (except dx10 of course).So in this case, rather than staying current with technology and not stuck in time, avoiding change, I feel I'm a victim of market extorsion, forced to upgrade the entire os without having ANY problems that need solved.

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"slower xp computers"???????I haven't heard anyone say that my computer running xp will be considered slow anytime soon!

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