14 minutes ago, Ixoye said:

I will upgrade my motherboard, cpu and memory first before I get a 4080 or 4090, which CPUs are best for MSFS today? or is it better to wait for a while?

Well, the 7800x3D is coming around Feb 2023 I guess, but the 5800x3D is the best deal right now, especially if you can sell your old CPU. That said, not sure it's worth buying a last gen motherboard to upgrade to a 5800x3D for you, probably wait and see. Remember the AMD GPU's are being announced in one week, and the 7900xt I'm hoping is 20%+ faster than the 6900xt, which will probably put it ahead of the 4090 in everything but VR performance, in which it should trail by just a little.

If AMD was smart (and they probably weren't), then they greatly increased production to take advantage of Nvidia trying to sneakily price control the market, and instead AMD might flood the market with 7900xt and 7950xt for under $1000. AMD would be stupid not to, this might be their last chance to gain serious momentum in the GPU market. However, AMD is not the smartest company when it comes to how to price things or compete against others, they often make dumb decisions. The AMD GPU's will now have 24 GB memory just like Nvidia.

 

Edited October 26, 20223 yr by Alpine Scenery

Jay tried to make it fail:

 

On 10/24/2022 at 10:35 AM, elee said:

Poor Performance with NVIDIA 4090 (RESOLVED)

Hi guys,
Finally, after several days of testing and exhaustive reading of all the suggestions that were given to me in this topic, I can resolve the performance problem on the 4090.

Problem
I went from a modest AMD Radeom 5770 xt GPU to a powerful Nvidia 4090. There were a lot of performance issues. FPS lower than the AMD 5770, constant stutters, DLSS without effects.

Cause

As of the date of this publication, the only way to enjoy the benefits of Nvidia's DLSS technology for the 4090 is with the SU Beta 11 version of MSFS. (By November it is expected to be integrated into the public version). This technology makes the performance of the Nvidia 40xx series literally double the FPS in the MSFS.

First error: For some reason, the option to enable in the MSFS menu “Nvidia DLSS Frame Generation” appears grayed out with no possibility to enable. To fix this, edit the usercfg.opt file and set DLSSG to 1
Thks Cpt_Piett

Second error: In some forums it is recommended for a better performance of the MSFS, to disable HAGS in Windows. ERROR, this must be enabled, it is mandatory for DLSS.
Thks Cpt_Piett

Third error: With the new 4090, the stutters became very noticeable. This is because we must configure the frequency of our monitors with v-Sync and in some cases like mine in which I have a monitor with a non-standard resolution of 3080x1080, with a Refresh Rate of 144Hz, configure a Frame limiter, since the FPS jumps I get are very high (between 70 to 120). I think that for those who have 4k, 8k monitors, this is not a problem.

Resolution
As @Cpt_Piett indicates, we need to make sure we have:

• latest nVidia game ready driver (522.25) or higher
• HAGS on (Windows Graphics settings)
• SU11 beta (or SU11 release when available)
• DX12
• DLSS then DLAA

Also, in my case:

• V-SYNC = ON (MSFS)
• Frame Rate Limit = 33% Monitor Refresh Rate (MSFS)
• AMD Freesync (or G-Sync for Nvidia) = ON (on monitor)
• 144Hz Refresh Rate on the monitor
• MAX Frame Rate = 45 in Nvidia Control Panel
• Set up G-Sync for the monitor in Nvidia Control Panel
• Power Management mode = Maximum in Nvidia Control Panel

Conclusions
CPUs
The issue of the CPU that I currently have was mentioned a lot, which could be a bottleneck for the 4090.
My conclusion: The CPU i9 – 11900k @ 3.50Ghz – Turbo 5.0Ghz – OC at 5.3 Ghz, does not currently represent any bottleneck. All of his Cores remain very free. It is possible that when you change to a 4k or higher monitor, you may need to upgrade.
PSU
The issue of the PSU was also very missionary. I currently have an 850W PSU which can only supply power to 3 of the 4 connectors on the 4090.
My conclusion: If you're not going to OC your GPU, it's not necessary. I already have my new 1200W PSU which I will change this week and post if I notice any changes, however right now with the excellent performance I have with only 3 connectors I don't think it will make a difference.
GPU
 The 4090 is plain and simply a beast.
My conclusion: With the HW that I currently have at the CPU and Monitor level, I may not be giving it all the power that this baby still deserves, but for those who can afford it, I think they will be on another level. PCI5 and a good AMD ZEN 4 CPU I think will make them explode with emotions.
General
Now I am enjoying a stable simulator, smooth as hell and with a stable FPS of 70 FPS that guarantees me exceptional maneuverability. Something that I had never achieved in my 25 years of simulation.

 

Some or many things may vary between different users, but this is what really worked for me and I hope it will be useful for those who may come across something similar.

 

 

UPGRADE

Well it looks like the ghosts of halloween are taking over my FS.

I have been testing long-duration flights (more than 3 hours), in different scenarios, from the most populated like New York, to the remote and desolate Islands of the South Pacific.

When I'm at the departure gate (EJ: KJFK with all its high traffic), everything is fluid for more or less the hour it takes me to board, plan the flight, and take off.

After at least 2 hours of flight at cruising speed and FL380, the stutters begin. Very noticeable outside the cabin, inside the cabin, etc.
At the beginning of the desender the stutters continue a little more uncomfortable, as if it were heavy scenarios, but it is not, since I am reaching NSFA, Samoa (Or any other scenario without any heavy load of graphics).

And here comes the best of all. When I barely reach the landing platform and turn off the FBW engines, the MSFS window "END FLIGHT WHEN AIRCRAFT SHUTS DOWN" immediately appears, I give the option to continue the flight and that simply returns me to where am. And what do you think? Everything is fluid again.

I don't understand what's going on, it's as if everything restarts when this window appears (but it doesn't).

Any suggestion?

 

 

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Remember the AMD GPU's are being announced in one week,............which will probably put it ahead of the 4090 in everything but VR performance

plus - no DLSS 3, which will keep the 4090 probably 100%-400% ahead of the next AMD whatever. If we like DLSS3 or not, I suppose DLSS 3 is a by-product of their autonomous automobile driving and AI division and definitely protected by several NVidia patents. I don't see what AMD has to offer to beat NVidia here. And NVidia hasn't even launched their 4090 TI. I would love for AMD to prove me wrong, right now I just don't see how.

Edited October 26, 20223 yr by turbomax

15 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Jay tried to make it fail:

he pulled the connector just 1 time, not 40 times. experiment lasted not even 20 minutes. not sure it proves anything.

7 minutes ago, turbomax said:

he pulled the connector just 1 time, not 40 times. experiment lasted not even 20 minutes. not sure it proves anything.

Hm. I put the extinguisher back in the shed, are you saying I should keep it close by?

Jokes aside though, it’s probably not the best GPU power cable design the world has ever seen. Don’t think they’ll win any design awards for it.

And who can say where the road goes?
Where the day flows? Only time

not by me unfortunately, but Enya.

Edited October 26, 20223 yr by turbomax

1 minute ago, turbomax said:

And who can say where the road goes?
Where the day flows? Only time

Indeed.

45 minutes ago, turbomax said:

plus - no DLSS 3, which will keep the 4090 probably 100%-400% ahead of the next AMD whatever. If we like DLSS3 or not, I suppose DLSS 3 is a by-product of their autonomous automobile driving and AI division and definitely protected by several NVidia patents. I don't see what AMD has to offer to beat NVidia here. And NVidia hasn't even launched their 4090 TI. I would love for AMD to prove me wrong, right now I just don't see how.

DLSS 3 is not AI, but people are going to believe it is. It is interpolation, I'm 100% on this. Sony pulled the same scam, claiming they had AI in their sharpening algorithm. There is not a way yet to make ML behave or do anything on real-time 3D imagery (some very basic tasks have been accomplished), but much less self-train it on imagery over time. We are like 25+ years away from being able to do that. You can train "fixed images" that are within an expected range (like space invaders), but that's entirely different than trying to train something to operate on random 3D imagery of a game. There are ways to train it and get a somewhat random result, but it takes a ridiculous amount of computer power to do so, and it doesn't work with real-time 3D imagery in any controllable fashion. It's ashame these companies keep claiming stuff has AI that doesn't. Autonomous driving is just real-time image recognition using a combination of contrast-color-shape, it isn't even processing the entire image in real-time, which is why there are bugs with it. It can be called AI, but it doesn't teach itself anything or get better really (not without human testing and assistance), as the programmers have to modify the code manually, even though their marketing will tell you otherwise. I'm familiar with where the bar is on the cutting edge of ML, and it's not even close to where these companies claim it is. When you see AI bots people made online that can talk and stuff, they are just processing "expected responses" to X question and answers, there is some AI in some of them, but even those are mostly marketing gimmicks.

Edited October 26, 20223 yr by Alpine Scenery

15 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

DLSS 3 is not AI

I am no expert in this field. If it is "only" interpolation, why hasn't it been done before?

"I would love for AMD to prove me wrong" to quote TurboMax.

 

 

Edited October 26, 20223 yr by turbomax

Just now, turbomax said:

I am no expert in this field.

"I would love for AMD to prove me wrong" to quote TurboMax.

 

 

Sorry, my response isn't directed at you, just in general people keep calling it AI.
It's a useful feature, but not AI.

I hope the AMD is cheaper is the main thing, and just competes...
 

""In addition, conventional neural network architectures are generalizable and trained to operate without significant knowledge of an immediate problem. Other conventional super resolution techniques use deep learning approaches. The deep learning techniques do not, however, incorporate important aspects of the original image, resulting in lost color and lost detail information," AMD added."

https://hothardware.com/news/amd-gaming-super-resolution-competitor-nvidia-dlss

 

I know what they claim to do, but what they claim to do isn't the same as what they actually do. They get away with it because people don't understand the technology. Companies have been using this same super-resolution deep-learning baloney for 30 years, do you really think they had the technology 30 years ago?

So basically, they are taking known scholarly research on super-resolution and trying to convince people they are now using the results of that stuff directly in their software. Well, they do have some really fast super computers to help their programmers offload experimental batch analysis and do things with imagery, sure, but it is not related to producing algorithms with AI. What that article is claiming, is they need a neural network to improve the anti-aliasing after the image is combined. It's just purely a lie, not only do you not need it, but there is no use for it outside of the imagery research field or statistical stuff (or letting programmers experiment). Sure, there are hundreds of studies on Super-resolution, Super-sampling, and some are valid, some are not (just like any study). That said, there are still inherent limitations to what can be done in real-time on random 3D imagery. There are even limitations as to what can be done as a batch (that can even run for months). Patents don't mean much either, companies have tens of thousands of questionable patents that should have never been handed out in the first place, especially fortune 500 companies.

AMD is at least making the argument based on "plausible deniability", Nvidia isn't even doing that. AMD's plausible deniability is they admitted the algorithms are linear and not based on non-linear entire images, but what they aren't admitting is that they didn't use ("in any meaningful way") AI to find those optimization algorithms, as they already existed in the public domain for years. The specific implementation of those algorithms can vary, but it is certainly not ground breaking, and the only real big variable here is more processing power (other than the interpolation itself injecting frames).

Edited October 26, 20223 yr by Alpine Scenery

1 hour ago, elee said:

UPGRADE

Well it looks like the ghosts of halloween are taking over my FS.

I have been testing long-duration flights (more than 3 hours), in different scenarios, from the most populated like New York, to the remote and desolate Islands of the South Pacific.

When I'm at the departure gate (EJ: KJFK with all its high traffic), everything is fluid for more or less the hour it takes me to board, plan the flight, and take off.

After at least 2 hours of flight at cruising speed and FL380, the stutters begin. Very noticeable outside the cabin, inside the cabin, etc.
At the beginning of the desender the stutters continue a little more uncomfortable, as if it were heavy scenarios, but it is not, since I am reaching NSFA, Samoa (Or any other scenario without any heavy load of graphics).

And here comes the best of all. When I barely reach the landing platform and turn off the FBW engines, the MSFS window "END FLIGHT WHEN AIRCRAFT SHUTS DOWN" immediately appears, I give the option to continue the flight and that simply returns me to where am. And what do you think? Everything is fluid again.

I don't understand what's going on, it's as if everything restarts when this window appears (but it doesn't).

Any suggestion?

 

 

 

 

 

I forgot to mention that during these stutters, the FPS is still stable and high and that the CPU also looks stable and large spikes.

1 minute ago, elee said:

I forgot to mention that during these stutters, the FPS is still stable and high and that the CPU also looks stable and large spikes.

It’s a strange issue for sure. Never had it. And that it’s pretty much resolved when the flight “ends”.