X-Plane 12 final

[soaring_penguin 431]

10 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

I'm sure it isn't. But the org forum just took x-plane cultism to another level.

And this is the exact kind of posting that is totally irrelevant

[MrBitstFlyer 3,897]

6 hours ago, mSparks said:

There is nothing wrong with being wholly invested in Xplane or MSFS, people shouldn't be repremanded for it, at the same time, there is a lot of absolute nonsense flying around like

I reference only those people who do not use/like a particular sim and bash it constantly in a forum dedicated to it.  Criticism of XP12 is fine in a balanced discussion of the sim.

[Bjoern 1,170]

Tried XP12's ALIA 250 yesterday and hooo boy, that thing is fun! Great lead-in trainer for helicopters to boot as you can train transitional lift without having to worry about torque.

Landed on a helideck on the first try.

 

With the confidence I gave the R22 another try, but crashed and burned after a minute. How that thing is supposed to be flyable is a mystery.

[soaring_penguin 431]

9 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

How that thing is supposed to be flyable is a mystery.

imagine yourself holding a beach ball in your hands. Now on top of that you place a smaller one, and try to keep that in balance 😄 . That is what flying such a thing is.

[mSparks 2,094]

39 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

How that thing is supposed to be flyable is a mystery.

hover or flight?

for hover the key is in choosing good visual reference points. need two, one about 4 or 5 feet in front of the pilot (e.g. pad light or corner of the threshold marking) the other far in the distance (e.g. end of a runway).

the main one is the close point, to hold the hover the goal is to keep it in the same point on the window, if you over correct the point is to close, if you under correct it was to far. once airborne its basically the same as plane, except slow with a tendancy to want to pitch the nose up all the time.

also seems to help if you walk the pedals to really keep a tight grip on heading.

r22s basically weigh nothing so the are super sensitive to all inputs, main thing (along with a super short time to enter autorotation) that makes them so dangerous.

Edited December 22, 2022 by mSparks

[Bjoern 1,170]

19 minutes ago, mSparks said:

hover or flight?

for hover the key is in choosing good visual reference points. need two, one about 4 or 5 feet in front of the pilot (e.g. pad light or corner of the threshold marking) the other far in the distance (e.g. end of a runway).

the main one is the close point, to hold the hover the goal is to keep it in the same point on the window, if you over correct the point is to close, if you under correct it was to far. once airborne its basically the same as plane, except slow with a tendancy to want to pitch the nose up all the time.

Everything.

I carefully increase collective for liftoff. It wants to turn. I give it some careful rudder input and it goes off in the other direction. Liftoff immediately changes the lift characteristics and it goes anywhere but where I want it to. Which mostly is back to controlled flight at that point. Other helos also do that, but much more predictably and with much more mass and inertia. In the R22, I feel as if I'm trying to sew on a button while wearing Apollo A7L gloves. The processs is easy, known and clearly defined, but between human and result are 5000 layers of FUBAR.

[turbomax 3,307]

3 hours ago, Murmur said:

You've discovered one of the (many) realistic details present in X-Plane

what I have not discovered though is the magic "cage" button to re-erect the ADI in this analog vacuum driven King Bendix KI-256 as used in x-plane's Beech Baron:

[mSparks 2,094]

2 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

In the R22, I feel as if I'm trying to sew on a button while wearing Apollo A7L gloves. The processs is easy, known and clearly defined, but between human and result are 5000 layers of FUBAR.

heavier it is the slower it responds, dial the weight up. you gotta be really quick with everything in the 22,

e.g. it only has something like 2.5 seconds to enter autorotation if the engine fails (about 5 in a 44, 6 or 7 in a 66) otherwise the blades just stop spinning and you get a free trip to meet your great great grand parents.

You have to prempt every input, so putting left pedal before it wants to spin right, push the nose down before it lifts up, but not so much the nose dips - let the left skid sit low but not to much.

10 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

Liftoff immediately changes the lift characteristics

every control input heavily affects all the others, especially the collective, where any change needs fairly significant pedal and cyclic input to keep it stable.

I 

[OverTheEDJ 266]

23 hours ago, soaring_penguin said:

Actually quite the opposite, much of the updates in the XP11 run like Vulkan, performance tuning, is what led to XP12. This roadmap started way before MSFS was announced.

Same for 3d weather, Austin did change his opinion after flying Xplane with Enviro. Again MSFS wasn’t announced yet at the time. 

So I do agree that Microsoft upped the playing field, but it didn’t change the priorities for Laminar as much as you like to think. For sure XP12 wasn’t announced in answer to MSFS. But yes, probably it took longer to get the new features to an acceptable level because MSFS set higher standards.

As much as you are anyone else would like to believe, XP has not been the ever evolving ever growing sim through its XP10 / XP11 cycles. Development was stagnant, and 2018 / 2019 conventions showed nothing new (specifics or general timeline) on the horizon with respect to graphics etc.

Remember….my response was to a comment about much of XP12 being “planned” a week after XP11’s release. And you have chosen to skirt around the problem with that “unbelievable” comment.

LR makes these wonderful plans (what we see as XP12) within a week after “XP11” was released (according to @GoranM), so this would be March/ April 2017, right…  

So now, here we are in Dec 2022…some 5+ years later, XP12 drops (that you have to pay for), but again, these secret undisclosed plans were “inked” 1 week after XP11s release, but somehow never actually made it in an XP11 build??? Yep, that sounds like progress and ongoing development. Like I said. What a Plan!!!

[mSparks 2,094]

3 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

conventions showed nothing new (specifics or general timeline) on the horizon with respect to graphics etc.

2018

https://www.phoronix.com/news/X-Plane-Vulkan-2018

[soaring_penguin 431]

12 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

As much as you are anyone else would like to believe, XP has not been the ever evolving ever growing sim through its XP10 / XP11 cycles. Development was stagnant, and 2018 / 2019 conventions showed nothing new (specifics or general timeline) on the horizon with respect to graphics etc.

Remember….my response was to a comment about much of XP12 being “planned” a week after XP11’s release. And you have chosen to skirt around the problem with that “unbelievable” comment.

LR makes these wonderful plans (what we see as XP12) within a week after “XP11” was released (according to @GoranM), so this would be March/ April 2017, right…  

So now, here we are in Dec 2022…some 5+ years later, XP12 drops (that you have to pay for), but again, these secret undisclosed plans were “inked” 1 week after XP11s release, but somehow never actually made it in an XP11 build??? Yep, that sounds like progress and ongoing development. Like I said. What a Plan!!!

and this is what I call typical X-Plane/Laminar bashing. #notworthit 

It is this kind of attacks that makes the forum unreadable. 

Here goes the ignore button again.

And for your information, a lot of stuff DID make it in v11.50, like the switch to Vulkan, the performance updates, new updates to the gateway, just to name a few... .

Edited December 22, 2022 by soaring_penguin

[mSparks 2,094]

2 minutes ago, soaring_penguin said:

and this is what I call typical X-Plane/Laminar bashing.

II think it's much simpler than that

He wasnt listening in 2018 therefore they cant have said anything. 

[soaring_penguin 431]

10 minutes ago, mSparks said:

2018

https://www.phoronix.com/news/X-Plane-Vulkan-2018

Right, I forgot they added VR after switching to Vulkan, thanks mSparks 😉 .

But of course, this is all a stagnant platform where nothing, but really nothing, happened the last five years.

[OverTheEDJ 266]

19 hours ago, GoranM said:

So much in your post that I simply don't have the time to reply to.  And I appreciate the effort.  But my post wasn't directed towards you.  This thread is about XP12 going final.  

Oh, you made sure to respond, you just had no way to refute what I wrote. I accept your surrender on the issues I presented.

And yes, this thread is about XP going final...and  I was responding to your response to a poster's comments about..XP going final. 

19 hours ago, GoranM said:

Should you feel the need to discuss your opinions further, my DM's are always open.  

This comment makes no sense, if you don't have time to reply to me in the open forum, where would you find time to respond to me in your DM?? These glaring contradictions are easily seen when you try to be passively dismissive because you truly have no answer...

But hey, do you..., but I don't do DMs. I'd rather expose you in the open.

19 hours ago, GoranM said:

At the end of the day, remember, 

It's just a game.

True, but some may call it a sim...

19 hours ago, GoranM said:

Merry Christmas to you.  And to the folks who liked your post.  

🎅

Likewise....

[mSparks 2,094]

21 minutes ago, soaring_penguin said:

But of course, this is all a stagnant platform where nothing, but really nothing, happened the last five years.

Well, this posit did form the backbone of their widespread belief that xplane would have no users by now.

I must admit its mildly amusing to see them twist the data and deflect in anyway they can to justify why a sim that has been released for barely a week is already close enough to dominating the navigraph survey, especially after all that "these steam numbers prove xplane 12 failed" we kept getting bombarded with the last few weeks.

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by mSparks