X-Plane 12 final

[GoranM 3,799]

14 hours ago, jelder said:

Goran, I hope the update you are working on is to bring the TBM to XP12 as this remains one of the masterpieces for Xplane.

Only just caught this one.  Yes, the TBM update is coming.  The stream I was watching was of Saso (TBM and CL coder) begin the update process, while I continue to work on the 650.  And as a thank you to everyone who made the TBM and CL650 a massive success, both TBM and 650 updates to XP12 will be free of charge. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by GoranM

[jcjimmy 150]

GoranM,

re: both TBM and 650 updates to XP12 will be free of charge.

Thanks. That's really great news. I have the 650 and look forward to the XP12 update.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

[Pivot 154]

14 hours ago, GoranM said:

Only just caught this one.  Yes, the TBM update is coming.  The stream I was watching was of Saso (TBM and CL coder) begin the update process, while I continue to work on the 650.  And as a thank you to everyone who made the TBM and CL650 a massive success, both TBM and 650 updates to XP12 will be free of charge. 

Glad to here the TBM update is in the works. I've been holding my breath on this one so long now, I'm a Smurf.. 🥶🥶🥶 You all ROCK Goran..

[Malaromane 448]

6 hours ago, jcjimmy said:

Thanks. That's really great news. I have the 650 and look forward to the XP12 update.

Your wait is over! Version 1.7 of the CL650 with XP12 support was released today.

Now it's just the TBM to wait for!

[OverTheEDJ 266]

On 12/20/2022 at 10:39 AM, GoranM said:

There's a way to convey your feelings about X-Plane and its shortcomings.  The way you're doing it, with your self entitlement...

He was simply expressing his opinion. The forums have always been a gateway of expression…from passionate opinions to frustrated rants. But a grown man sitting behind a keyboard “trying” to chastise another poster on a forum board for his opinion is the epitome of entitlement…

 

On 12/20/2022 at 10:39 AM, GoranM said:

X-Plane 12 is awesome.  Revolutionary.  Photometric lighting.  PBR textures.  Dedicated Vulkan.  Brand new global weather.  Overhauled water physics.  The best X-Plane version by far.  

...and its still open to and fair game for criticism and scrutiny just like any other product or service.

 

On 12/20/2022 at 10:39 AM, GoranM said:

If you want to offer constructive criticisms, then that's great.  But your current attitude is one of an entitled elitist, who thinks his opinion is more valid than everyone else's because you made content.  Might be a good idea to step back and check yourself.

Well, I guess you told him a thing or two... Try taking your own advice, eh...

 

20 hours ago, GoranM said:

The XP12 you see today, was planned within a week of XP11 getting released.

So you mean that LR did not do much with XP11 visuals for years (although they had plans), then waited for another sim to take to invest heavily in this area, and then release XP12 some 2 years after that to bring visuals they had planned all along,…and then charge for it? What a plan!!!

 

20 hours ago, GoranM said:

Nothing about MSFS influenced the XP12 road map.

History shows otherwise...but hey, your opinion has been noted.

20 hours ago, GoranM said:

Point of fact, it was X-Plane that influenced some versions of MSFS.

Which version and how so? Please be specific...we want to isolated fact from fiction.

Point of fact, that so called XP influence had nothing to do with streaming scenery in the latest version...

20 hours ago, GoranM said:

 X-Plane was the first flight sim to go 64bit.  P3D followed about a year later.

I think that MS Windows went 64bit before XP, so one could say that MS influenced its own suite of products with the 64bit switch.

20 hours ago, GoranM said:

I've even seen forum posts accusing Laminar of copying MSFS with the default F-14.

And I have seen forum post accusing MSFS of copying another Dev’s TBM to use in their default offering. Funny how these “rumors” get around, right???

21 hours ago, GoranM said:

Coming in here, throwing one's weight around, demanding they be listened to, and announcing they have made content for X-Plane, so their opinion counts more than others, will just get that person laughed at.  

But it doesn't sound like you are laughing though... You have gone through great lengths (and long posts) in an attempt to refute what folk have said.

I think that you have attempted to throw your weight around and so called credibility. But at the end of the day "it comes off" as just another opinion. No more, No less.

[soaring_penguin 431]

36 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

So you mean that LR did not do much with XP11 visuals for years (although they had plans), then waited for another sim to take to invest heavily in this area, and then release XP12 some 2 years after that to bring visuals they had planned all along,…and then charge for it? What a plan!!

Actually quite the opposite, much of the updates in the XP11 run like Vulkan, performance tuning, is what led to XP12. This roadmap started way before MSFS was announced.

Same for 3d weather, Austin did change his opinion after flying Xplane with Enviro. Again MSFS wasn’t announced yet at the time. 

So I do agree that Microsoft upped the playing field, but it didn’t change the priorities for Laminar as much as you like to think. For sure XP12 wasn’t announced in answer to MSFS. But yes, probably it took longer to get the new features to an acceptable level because MSFS set higher standards.

[mSparks 2,094]

39 minutes ago, soaring_penguin said:

it took longer to get the new features to an acceptable level

I think this is what nearly everyone misses.

They are truly new features (at least in consumer software)

New in the sense literally no one has done them before.

About the only thing that doesnt apply to is the volumetric clouds - but even there very soon they will be only whole world 3D engine with sdk access to the weather for anyone who wants it.

Its very easy to just copy what everyone else has done before, something else entirely to be the ones dragging the entire industry forwards.

Edited December 21, 2022 by mSparks

[GoranM 3,799]

@OverTheEDJ

So much in your post that I simply don't have the time to reply to.  And I appreciate the effort.  But my post wasn't directed towards you.  This thread is about XP12 going final.  

Should you feel the need to discuss your opinions further, my DM's are always open.  

At the end of the day, remember, 

It's just a game.

Merry Christmas to you.  And to the folks who liked your post.  

🎅

Edited December 22, 2022 by GoranM

[blingthinger 667]

7 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Which version and how so? Please be specific...we want to isolated fact from fiction.

'Force' elements, to the point that LR got special 'recognition' in the SDK.

Force visualization

Scenery gateway

To name a few... I'm sure photometric rendering will eventually make it in there.

 

7 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

I think that MS Windows went 64bit before XP

So beyond that it'd be AMD providing the root inspiration (amd64). Hadn't thought of it that way before, but sure!

[soaring_penguin 431]

4 hours ago, blingthinger said:

I think that MS Windows went 64bit before XP

Off course, it wouldn’t make sense the other way around, would it? He stated clearly that XP was the first flight simulator to go 64 bit …

[MrBitstFlyer 3,897]

On 12/19/2022 at 2:14 AM, GoranM said:

These posts won't turn people off X-Plane.  It will likely discourage them from being part of a community (MSFS) that continues to bash a competing product.  Like I said earlier, those people will simply go elsewhere for X-Plane discussions, and avsim will lose traffic.

In the two years I used MSFS and used the Avsim MSFS forum, I ignored one user.  In the three months I have been testing XP12, I have ignored nine users!  XP users generally don't post much over there, but in this forum there are many posters that don't like XP at all. Their sole purpose appears to be bashing XP for some weird sense of superiority.  I am very complementary in my replies concerning MSFS, yet they just ignore that and continue XP bashing.

I would like such posters to be banned, or be given lengthy holidays, because they add nothing to useful XP discussions. At times it does get annoying.

Edited December 22, 2022 by MrBitstFlyer

[GoranM 3,799]

33 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

In the two years I used MSFS and used the Avsim MSFS forum, I ignored one user.  In the three months I have been testing XP12, I have ignored nine users!  XP users generally don't post much over there, but in this forum there are many posters that don't like XP at all. Their sole purpose appears to be bashing XP for some weird sense of superiority.  I am very complementary in my replies concerning MSFS, yet they just ignore that and continue XP bashing.

I would like such posters to be banned, or be given lengthy holidays, because they add nothing to useful XP discussions. At times it does get annoying.

I’ve come to realize that these people are way, way too emotionally invested in their choices. And if we don’t acknowledge that, we are the cultists who don’t go with the supposed trend.  We’re the backwards flight simmers. There’s no changing their minds. We’ve just adapted to it. Those who haven’t adapted to it, like I said, have gone to other forums where they can discuss X-Plane in peace. I’ve asked the question before. Why do they care so much?  The answer is obvious.  I just want to see them answer it. They never do.   Even sent a DM to an MSFS user who welcomed any X-Plane user to discuss the pros and cons of each sim. He never responded. Even though I was notified that he read my DM. He frequents these forums, so he knows who he is. It’s the same person who announced that X-Plane users are welcome to the MSFS forums, as long as they’re respectful. In other words, sing msfs’s praises, or be exiled. If these people are not reprimanded, it’s a matter of continuing to block them. Unfortunately.  

Edited December 22, 2022 by GoranM

[mSparks 2,094]

41 minutes ago, GoranM said:

If these people are not reprimanded

Two... whatever they are called, I forget ... that I try to live by, and avsim moderators have my utmost respect for facilitating.

1. Don't attack the messenger, attack the message - aka don't make it personal.

2. Don't argue with my conclusion just because you disagree with it, argue with how I came to it.

There is nothing wrong with being wholly invested in Xplane or MSFS, people shouldn't be repremanded for it, at the same time, there is a lot of absolute nonsense flying around like

16 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

So you mean that LR did not do much with XP11 visuals for years (although they had plans),

which is mostly ignorance of the subject matter imho.

lets do a quick run down on "who did it first" visuals over the last few years:

X-Plane:

VR: Dec 22, 2017 XP11.20

PBR: Early 2018

Ortho photo: first github commit was Dec 2016, but it existed well before that 

Vulkan: 2019, XP11.50 - DCS/MSFS still do not have a vulkan version out yet.....

Photometric lighting: 2023

Water with aircraft interacting physics: 2023

MSFS:

Photogrammetry: 2020 release, but everyone turns it off.

So, I'm gonna conclude, Microsoft did nothing new with visuals that anyone cares about, and X-Plane has been trailblazing for years.

 

[flying_carpet 669]

4 hours ago, soaring_penguin said:

Off course, it wouldn’t make sense the other way around, would it? He stated clearly that XP was the first flight simulator to go 64 bit …

That's the argumentation level of MS cultists. I remember "back then", they argued Internet Exploder is superior to Mozilla Firefox because it's already version 8, whereas Firefox is only version 6. Kind of cute ...

[rka 916]

45 minutes ago, mSparks said:

So, I'm gonna conclude, Microsoft did nothing new with visuals that anyone cares about, and X-Plane has been trailblazing for years.

I just want to quote this beautiful statement of facts (cough) before it gets edited away and I hope the mods let me do it.