X-Plane 12 final

[MrBitstFlyer 3,897]

4 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

The x-plane team does.

When V12.1 is released, what will be your forfeit?

[MrBitstFlyer 3,897]

18 hours ago, UKflyer said:

what a joke, final release with dodgy weather. Well done LR

If somebody was to count the weather complaints about MSFS two years after public release, I wonder how many that would be?  In any case it isn't the final release, it is the FIRST release - many more will come.

[GoranM 3,799]

4 hours ago, efis007 said:

Xp12 (year 2012) can't express a perfect antialiasing like FS9 (year 2004) and you call it "fantastic"?
Have you ever thought about working for LR as an advertising agent? 

It's blatantly obvious that XP12 is not for you.  Too many things about it don't satisfy you.  So this begs the question.  Why do you continue to come here?  In the words of another avsimmer... why are you, and several others, trying to rile people up in this forum?  This is why there are pointless "my sim is better than your sim" arguments in the X-Plane forums.  And I still can't find the reason why you do it.  Other than just wanting to hate on it because it exists and it's serious competition.  And before you say it, if it wasn't serious competition, you simply wouldn't post here

These posts won't turn people off X-Plane.  It will likely discourage them from being part of a community (MSFS) that continues to bash a competing product.  Like I said earlier, those people will simply go elsewhere for X-Plane discussions, and avsim will lose traffic.

Edited December 19, 2022 by GoranM

[bogdansrb 230]

2 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

When V12.1 is released, what will be your forfeit?

I honestly don't even care if it's called alpha, beta, final, 12.1, 12.5 or whatever. I just hate it when developers release stuff half baked and have that "we know better" attitude. Which has proven them wrong and is the reason why they're here reconsiderig the eye candy stuff.

[MrBitstFlyer 3,897]

2 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

I honestly don't even care if it's called alpha, beta, final, 12.1, 12.5 or whatever. I just hate it when developers release stuff half baked and have that "we know better" attitude. Which has proven them wrong and is the reason why they're here reconsiderig the eye candy stuff.

Well, alpha's & beta's are obviously going to be half baked. I really don't know what you mean by 'we know better attitude', and who/what has proven them wrong.  Any developer that wants to remain current will obviously have to re-consider the 'eye candy stuff'.

 

[bogdansrb 230]

3 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Well, alpha's & beta's are obviously going to be half baked. I really don't know what you mean by 'we know better attitude', and who/what has proven them wrong.  Any developer that wants to remain current will obviously have to re-consider the 'eye candy stuff'.

 

Before MSFS, Austin was very confident that we don't need pretty volumetric clouds, nice scenery, nice lighting etc. Now the tone has changed, he brought a new weather system, a new lighting system and he even announced they're working on scenery. 

[GCBraun 2,420]

47 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

Before MSFS, Austin was very confident that we don't need pretty volumetric clouds, nice scenery, nice lighting etc. Now the tone has changed, he brought a new weather system, a new lighting system and he even announced they're working on scenery. 

And that is why competition is great for those of us who enjoy both sims. 😃

[soaring_penguin 431]

58 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

Before MSFS, Austin was very confident that we don't need pretty volumetric clouds, nice scenery, nice lighting etc. Now the tone has changed, he brought a new weather system, a new lighting system and he even announced they're working on scenery. 

Maybe Austin didn’t care, but he hired developers to care for him, and the foundations were laid out years before MSFS. The plausible world was introduced in v10, PBR light in v11 and Vulkan during v11 run. All this was needed and done to start working on v12. 
v12 will see more improvements and refinements in scenery and weather.

It doesn’t mean if one thing follows another, that the first is the cause of the second. 

[jcomm 6,020]

4 hours ago, soaring_penguin said:

Maybe Austin didn’t care, but he hired developers to care for him, and the foundations were laid out years before MSFS. The plausible world was introduced in v10, PBR light in v11 and Vulkan during v11 run. All this was needed and done to start working on v12. 
v12 will see more improvements and refinements in scenery and weather.

It doesn’t mean if one thing follows another, that the first is the cause of the second. 

Indeed @soaring_penguin, just as with other stuff.

I sometimes emailed Austin asking for this or that feature / detail.

I remember pocking him regarding the need for "a coherent depiction of the Moon", "coherent non-ISA pressure lapse rate", "modular approach to geomagnetic declination", etc...

Sometimes regarding these features he answered "not in priority list", other times he simply refused to even give a look at it - "it's PERFECT", other times he said he would look at it in a future version.

The Moon we now have in XP12 is not as beautiful as the one depicted in MFS. In general night sky and lighting leaves a LOT to be desired in XP12 compared to MFS (would have to check how it's done in AEFS4, btw), but it's there, and although there are still bugs with it's depiction (it disappears and reappears soon after rise, under some circumstances) it is a lot better than it was before. I still miss an important feature though - being able to set the full date of a flight YYYYMMMDD instead f only MMDD. 

Regarding geopotential height, it's now partially modelled (IMO poorly) because someone in LR found that it's good enough to model it up to the average ISA Tropopause height 😕  so, for aircraft cruising above, say, FL360 the T values can be far from rw data available through weather models like the one being used to feed XP12...

Regarding geomagnetic declination, it got updated but I am not sure if it's going to suffer interim updates before XP goes v13?

Austin also gave a look recently at the aerodynamics of sweep-back wings, changed some formulas to better cope with reality, forgot about other details like drag, will probably, or not, have a look at it again along XP12, I really don't know...

There were also some email exchanges between us, including Murmur and Alec, redaing the implementation of proper flaps configurations / parametrization for negative settings, used in most high performance gliders and some STOL aircraft too. Presently it's not possible to model in XP, and a great free glider addon like the PIK-20 available from the .Org for XP12 would surely benefit from it. Let's hope Austin revisits this area in Plane-Maker along the XP12 cycle updates...

Overall XP is usually a dynamic platform - nothing new, and I hope it'll keep that way along XP12. I look fwd into further development of the new ATC system which brought rather interesting features and IMO has potential. I also believe they'll end up doing something about that rather poor night lighting, clouds being totally dark at night/invisible, etc... 

One thing is for sure. I believe MFS 2020 was the best thing that happened to XP simmers because it applied a good kick in LR's @r$e, and made it widen it's development & progress force vectors 🙂

This being said, and even with all that I can still say I'm not satisfied with n XP12, this release is IMO probably the best since I use XP. I remember XP10 was a huge step fwd, but this 12 is even better, more promising...

Edited December 19, 2022 by jcomm

[MrBitstFlyer 3,897]

2 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

Before MSFS, Austin was very confident that we don't need pretty volumetric clouds, nice scenery, nice lighting etc. Now the tone has changed, he brought a new weather system, a new lighting system and he even announced they're working on scenery. 

How is any of that negative in any way whatsoever?  Surely all of that is just a good thing?

[bogdansrb 230]

3 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

How is any of that negative in any way whatsoever?  Surely all of that is just a good thing?

Of course it's a good thing, the point being that we should embrace change and improvement and not consider something "good enough". 

[OverTheEDJ 266]

22 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

I honestly don't even care if it's called alpha, beta, final, 12.1, 12.5 or whatever. I just hate it when developers release stuff half baked and have that "we know better" attitude. Which has proven them wrong and is the reason why they're here reconsiderig the eye candy stuff.

In general, I think the expectation is that a flight sim is never really finished, but constantly improving (fixes features etc.). This is why (to me) the post release updates are so important. It will be interesting to see how things develop over the next 6 months

 

20 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

Before MSFS, Austin was very confident that we don't need pretty volumetric clouds, nice scenery, nice lighting etc. Now the tone has changed, he brought a new weather system, a new lighting system and he even announced they're working on scenery. 

I think that Austin downplays the things that he can't implement (or doesn't plan to) anytime soon. I think that the ground scenery issue will be a sore spot going forward. It is still lagging compared to all of the other upgrades and doesn't complete the "new" look feeling when comparing XP12 to XP11.

Edited December 20, 2022 by OverTheEDJ

[sparkie66 81]

At this point for me, I can only shelve XP12. I am on a 4 k monitor and the AA is horrible, even maxed out (slideshow then)

As for the (not directed at me though) "why do you come here if XP is not for you" comments I can only guess their motivation is similar than mine.(personal opinion here:) Before MSFS, XP was the best, most modern sim with a very! real feeling of flight and weight of the a/c. MSFS raised the bar in terms of visuals too far out of reach for XP atm. BUT, I find the "feeling" of flight and weight of the a/c in MSFS lacking and a bit "off", and detracting from the experience. That and to lesser extent the not quite sharp textures.

But XP12 releasing a final version with way worse AA than XP 11, stuttering and low fps leaves me deflated. So while I really want to love XP 12 like I did XP 11, it's not happening atm and using XP11 now is taking a giant leap backwards also.

We will see what time will bring.

[SAS443 1,731]

Just now, sparkie66 said:

But XP12 releasing a final version with way worse AA than XP 11, stuttering and low fps leaves me deflated

My FPS has gone up/down between  the RC:s for XP12.

But since the "final" RC, I can agree. antialiasing is poor. my 2080ti is getting completely jobbed if I try MSAA x 4. And this with settings at medium in 4K.

MSAA x 2 produces a very nasty shimmer both in cockpit and outside view, just like we have in P3D. MSAAx4 reduces this alot, and improves the rendered scene, but tanks FPS.

[GoranM 3,799]

4 minutes ago, sparkie66 said:

At this point for me, I can only shelve XP12. I am on a 4 k monitor and the AA is horrible, even maxed out (slideshow then)

AA is getting worked on.  I wouldn't call it horrible how I have mine set up.  But I suppose we all have our preferences.  FYI, I run XP12 on a 5K Retina display on an M1 Max MBP, with a 4K display as my 2nd monitor.  I also have an intel 2020 iMac and a Windows PC with a 2080ti.  All of them run XP12 just fine.

4 minutes ago, sparkie66 said:

As for the (not directed at me though) "why do you come here if XP is not for you" comments I can only guess their motivation is similar than mine.(personal opinion here:)

It's not an unreasonable question.  But those kinds of posts are more directed to the people who keep saying X-Plane is rubbish, pathetic, stuck in 2004, etc...  There is no constructive criticism in those statements.  Nothing wrong with your post at all.  I remember reading someone else's post in the MSFS forums that everyone is welcome, just be respectful.  It's no different here.  Although, there are some who can't be respectful.  

 

12 minutes ago, sparkie66 said:

Before MSFS, XP was the best, most modern sim with a very! real feeling of flight and weight of the a/c. MSFS raised the bar in terms of visuals too far out of reach for XP atm. BUT, I find the "feeling" of flight and weight of the a/c in MSFS lacking and a bit "off", and detracting from the experience. That and to lesser extent the not quite sharp textures.

An opinion you are more than entitled to.

12 minutes ago, sparkie66 said:

But XP12 releasing a final version with way worse AA than XP 11, stuttering and low fps leaves me deflated.

As I mentioned earlier, the AA is getting worked on.  There's a reason for it, but all I can say is it's getting looked at and worked on.  Turning FSR Supersampling to OFF will decrease jaggies quite considerably.  

14 minutes ago, sparkie66 said:

So while I really want to love XP 12 like I did XP 11, it's not happening atm and using XP11 now is taking a giant leap backwards also.

You are perfectly entitled to use whatever you feel deserves your time.  If XP12 meets your expectations in the future, we may see you back here.  If not, enjoy whatever your choice may be.