P3D V6 is available

[lwt1971 7,456]

3 hours ago, Patriot3810 said:

I don't fly the other sim because it only has 2 sliders for the flight models behavior, and I don't like streaming scenery. P3d and x-plane have 100's that control each plane. That's why that other sim will never be certified as a study level aircraft. Like others have said, The other sim controls the flight models, While P3d, The planes control the flight models. Visuals are useless to me.I want behavior more like the real aircraft. Some of you seem to have a real problem with the ones that enjoy there platform of choice. Why aren't you out flying your such wonderful sim? Don't forget your Xbox Controller.

Oh here we go again with more nonsense about the "other" sim lol
- "it only has 2 sliders for the flight models behavior" - what does this even mean? (edit: ah you are harping about the user option for legacy vs modern flight model.. well newsflash, that's totally unrelated to the "100s" of available controllability in flight model configs aircraft developers have for the other sim, and this end-user option was just put in by MS/Asobo to give end users the ability to force the sim to use the FSX flight model in order to use old FSX aircraft) 
- "other sim will never be certified as a study level aircraft" - another ridiculous claim and also nonsensical.. high fidelity "study level" aircraft from PMDG, Fenix, A2A, iniBuilds, Milviz, FSL (soon) etc etc must be all figments of our imagination.
- "The other sim controls the flight models, While P3d, The planes control the flight models" - more comedy... P3D uses the FSX flight model fyi. All sims have core flight models and a flight dynamics engine which the aircraft flight models are then built on top of... so in all sims, it's the aircraft implementation that ultimately determines its flight model.
- "Don't forget your Xbox Controller" - 😂 It's adorable how some seem to be repeating this gem of a talking point/phrase without realizing how foolish it makes you look

When you spew nonsense like this, expect to be called out, and then don't try to turn around and characterize that as you being made to not enjoy your platform of choice. A lot of us are not disparaging P3D or your use of it, nor do we care to do this or to compare it to the other sim. I realize this is your coping mechanism for the current state of P3D and 3rd party devs' positions on it, but at least come up with something rational and factual lol, and be a little less insecure about it all.
 

Edited July 5, 2023 by lwt1971

[turbomax 3,304]

3 hours ago, Patriot3810 said:

1) I don't fly the other sim because it only has 2 sliders for the flight models behavior,

2) Visuals are useless to me.

3) I want behavior more like the real aircraft.

4) Don't forget your Xbox Controller.

1) it gets even worse: only 2 options: legacy or modern flight model.

2) good to know. I wish I was also sometimes immune to beauty. makes life less expensive.

3) you can have both, great visuals AND behaviour more like the real aircraft. but not in P3Dv6.

4) I won't. I use it all the time to change views while in VR, in any simulator.

Edited July 5, 2023 by turbomax

[Bob Scott 7,745]

Some salient points here worthy of your consideration:

First, default P3D has never been some kind of shining beacon on a hill--it's a base flight simulation platform whose potential has never ever been realized without the array of add-ons that build upon it.

Second, P3Dv6 has been out for what, two days now?  Never in the history of ESP sims was a new version release anywhere close to ready for a fair comparison with its progenitors until the add-on universe caught up to it, a process usually taking months.  Videos and screenies supposedly showcasing P3D (without add-on support) are like posting a picture of a house for sale in an otherwise undeveloped subdivision with no siding, no landscaping, and on an unpaved street.  Nobody I know operates P3D in its default state any more than they'd live in a house on a dirt street with a bare front yard.  A video "preview" of the default base sim isn't any more representative of v6 than it would have been for any of the prior versions two days after release.  What recommends P3D the most is what you can get when you build on it.  It's still too early for anyone not intending to purposefully paint a negative picture to make a video that represents what is possible with the new version--there's still too much catching up that needs doing for those comparisons to be anything but clickbait trolling.

Third, it's a fact of life that each major release leaves behind add-ons that are no longer compatible and may not ever be compatible.  As I recall the history going back 25+ years, cross-version compatibility was truly awful in earlier generations of ESP.  It's better now, but not universal.  We won't know what's really possible in the new version (whether officially-supported or not) for some time still.  Yes, it does feel quite a bit worse than it's been for a long time with so many developers leaving the field.

Last, Prepar3D covers a progressive spectrum with its versioning--there's a reason that LM still sells and supports P3D v3, v4, v5, and now v6.  P3D's primary target customer base does not all drop what their doing and change to the latest-greatest every time a new version, major or minor, releases.  And the professional-grade training add-ons that their primary customers want will not be fully developed, tested and ready on the new platform any time soon, either.  Flight sim hobbyists tend to flock to the bleeding edge--but there's no reason we have to.  If P3Dv5 is good enough for the USAF to train its pilots in the real world (and it is and they do), then it's still good enough to suit my purposes.

So let's all stop and take a deep breath.  If you're a satisfied user of v4, or v5, then what worked two days ago still works.  We hope v6 will bring something better as its foundation is developed upon, but if it doesn't pan out quickly or even at all, the 64-bit P3D ecosystem is pretty well developed already, and it's still there to enjoy.

[blueshark747 1,847]

4 minutes ago, turbomax said:

1) it gets even worse: only 2 options: legacy or modern flight model.

2) good to know. I wish I was also sometimes immune to beauty. makes life less expensive.

3) you can have both, great visuals AND behaviour more like the real aircraft. but not in P3Dv6.

4) I don't. I use it all the time to change views while in VR, in any simulator.

I am tempted to try P3Dv6 just for the "full stereo" VR, as the cheap single pass injection was removed.

[ZLA Steve 377]

@lwt1971 you're yelling at a wall. don't bother.

@Bob Scott Well said.

[Swe_Richard 1,175]

Um... Why did my comment vanish?

[Bob Scott 7,745]

4 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

Um... Why did my comment vanish?

Because it was inflammatory and ad hominem (directed at the person). 

It's time for everyone to dial it back a couple notches.

[Krakin 5,840]

@Bob Scott As a consumer level product, V6 is dead and it will stay dead. No amount of optimism is going to bring it back to life. If all 3 of you are using it, it's still dead. What some of the diehard P3D fans in here need to be doing is putting the pressure on LM and not the 3PDs.

Btw, what you just said reminds me of that time Don Mattrick said, "Uhh, we have a console for that. It's called the 360"

[Bob Scott 7,745]

24 minutes ago, Krakin said:

@Bob Scott As a consumer level product, V6 is dead and it will stay dead. No amount of optimism is going to bring it back to life. If all 3 of you are using it, it's still dead. What some of the diehard P3D fans in here need to be doing is putting the pressure on LM and not the 3PDs.

Btw, what you just said reminds me of that time Don Mattrick said, "Uhh, we have a console for that. It's called the 360"

Dead to you, perhaps.  Consumer use of P3D was never its intended purpose anyway, and we have little standing to "put pressure" on LM to do anything.  We've always been hitch-hikers on this train.  I'm still happily surprised at our good fortune in that the railroad cops haven't already kicked us off.

Don Mattrick?  Never heard of him.

 

[threexgreen 3,156]

1 hour ago, Bob Scott said:

Second, P3Dv6 has been out for what, two days now?  Never in the history of ESP sims was a new version release anywhere close to ready for a fair comparison with its progenitors until the add-on universe caught up to it, a process usually taking months.  Videos and screenies supposedly showcasing P3D (without add-on support) are like posting a picture of a house for sale in an otherwise undeveloped subdivision with no siding, no landscaping, and on an unpaved street.  Nobody I know operates P3D in its default state any more than they'd live in a house on a dirt street with a bare front yard.  A video "preview" of the default base sim isn't any more representative of v6 than it would have been for any of the prior versions two days after release.  What recommends P3D the most is what you can get when you build on it.  It's still too early for anyone not intending to purposefully paint a negative picture to make a video that represents what is possible with the new version--there's still too much catching up that needs doing for those comparisons to be anything but clickbait trolling.

I fail to see how any of this is a strong point of P3D or even a desirable status quo to be honest. As a P3D user for years, I have spent hundreds (!) of monetas over the years on fixing up the base sim. This includes terrain vectors, textures, mesh, cloud and sky textures, water textures and shader addons. Even then, it still retained the ubiquitous FSX-ish look. Weather also is basically non-existent, unless you want to fly with default presets, so I bought every version of ActiveSky too. There have been some attempts from LM to improve at least the visuals, but EA/trueSKY was frankly a horror show and the new improvements in v6 are underwhelming.

This is perhaps no surprise considering what the purpose of P3D really is, but I have never seen the build-on-it-ability as a strong point: Ultimately, the lion's share of all the building is an attempt at replacing as much as you can to make it look somewhat realistic, with so-so results. Aircraft, airports and more exotic stuff like home cockpits and VR are about the only things that actually expand your experience, i. e. build on the platform to advance it, rather than try and make up for its flaws. But that's hardly a strong point because it's what's possible in every simulator out there.

If I had to guess, most people's frustration with it is that it barely makes progress and hasn't for years. There have been major changes like going 64 bit, but in the end that was not more than what was badly necessary. I think it's obvious from the reception (or lack thereof) that many were clutching onto the last straws of hope that something big was going to happen. Instead, you're just going to have to spend money and time on putting lipstick on it again like you've been doing for the last 15 years. At least that's how I felt about it for a long time.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Nixoq

[Krakin 5,840]

1 hour ago, Bob Scott said:

Don Mattrick?  Never heard of him.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Krakin

[Bob Scott 7,745]

It's a platform--each user can decide what elements need augmentation or replacement.  I didn't characterize that as either a "strong point or even a desirable status quo" but the platform is not generally used by any of its customers in its raw, unimproved base form, and so it shouldn't be evaluated that way.

If you are one of LM's primary customers who needs the platform to do real-world work, the last thing you want is a disruptive change.  What many lament as lack of progress is seen by the main customer base as stability.

[turbomax 3,304]

I pulled some of my old favourite Carenado's out of the hangar for some short test flights in P3Dv6 and was pleasantly surprised they all installed and worked flawlessly, especially the Embraer Phenom 100 looked super attractive, even from the inside in VR. Can't wait for those in the other simulator. I was so excited about the visual quality in the VR cockpit that I had not expected and so distracted that I didn't even mind the ugly scenery below me and these cardboard-like 4sided trees. VR and anti-aliasing worked like a charm, 35-70 fps, rain drops only visible in spot mode, perhaps only new v6-specific or default aircraft support this effect.

 

default scenery with well-known aircraft carrier type runways in abundance and flintstone's homemade airplane interior:

 

P3Dv6 LockheedMartin ugly C172-clone default airplane:

[btacon 1,848]

28 minutes ago, Bob Scott said:

I'm still happily surprised at our good fortune in that the railroad cops haven't already kicked us off.

Well Bob, it seems that a large group of developers feel that the the train ride is ending soon and have decided to de-board before the consumer market tracks run out.

IMO, this release is a deliberate act by LM to subtly tell them (developers) that the consumer market is gone, at least for P3d.  As a Mil. Training program it very well may live on and prosper, but as a Main Street consumer product, it’s time has past and this release, garish and as plain as it is clearly makes that point.

Again, only my opinion.

-B

[turbomax 3,304]

2 minutes ago, btacon said:

Again, only my opinion.

non solo, sed etiam.