1 hour ago, Franschhoek said:

I did say - The "Other Sim" is now in favour with many, if not the majority, of former P3d users..

What you said was "The millions on the "Other Sim" are there because it is a fad, other than the hard core simmers who have moved there from P3d"  .. what that comes across as is that the hard core simmers using that other sim are all/mostly ex-P3Ders. But now you're saying you meant that a majority of P3D users are now on that other sim, good that you clarified! Oh, and the part about it being a "fad" is also laughable conjecture.
 

1 hour ago, Franschhoek said:

And why the ignorance regarding streaming scenery from a server in the 'Other Sim"

So by "Without the streaming it is just FSX wrapped in a bit more candy" you meant FSX in terms of looks only, ok even then I'd beg to differ.. but quite obviously apart from looks, the other sim is still much more than just FSX without the streaming.
 

1 hour ago, Franschhoek said:

Lockheed Martin as one of the biggest aviation arms manufacturer in world who is not dependant on sales of P3d to keep going and will always need a training simulator will still be there in a more advanced form long after Microsoft gives up MSFS again. That is not emotionalism, but straight forward fact.

Well ok, kinda pointless to compare the longevity of a company like LM with a company like MS don't you think lol. And no, "Microsoft gives up MSFS again" is not fact, and far from straightforward... what is straightforward however is that it is conjecture, yet again 🙂 
 

Edited July 4, 20232 yr by lwt1971

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Sim platforms come and go

I disagree with you. Every single flight sim on the market has it's pro's and con's. That does not mean old simulators do not have a future. I think your basis of point is too short minded. As I said, every flight sim platform has it's pro's and con's. 

23 minutes ago, PavlinS said:

I disagree with you. Every single flight sim on the market has it's pro's and con's. That does not mean old simulators do not have a future. I think your basis of point is too short minded. As I said, every flight sim platform has it's pro's and con's. 

Don't think you quite got what I was saying.. of course every flight sim has pros and cons. When I say sim platforms "come and go" I'm talking about FSX, FS9, Flight Unlimited, older versions of various sims, etc. Those old platforms obviously have no future. As for P3D, the jury is still out and by no means is it a sim platform without any future, but the current facts on the ground are that for civilian home use, all/most 3rd party development for it has been paused and deprioritized.. and at best those devs will reevaluate their decision in the future when/if a new version of P3D comes out or when/if not all their developers are busy on their current focus on the other sim.
 

Edited July 4, 20232 yr by lwt1971

5 hours ago, Franschhoek said:

The "Other Sim" will eventually succumb to the cycle and reach user saturation point. Millions will lose interest. There is simply not enough excitment, unless the excitment is learning and perfecting the flight sim experience. The millions on the "Other Sim" are there because it is a fad, other than the hard core simmers who have moved there from P3d, and the minority of newbie who may become hard core simmers.

People kept saying this and yet the “other sim” has even massively grown. Not only this but is the first ever sim to include default planes with the same quality of payware or even better with high fidelity systems.

1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

What you said was "The millions on the "Other Sim" are there because it is a fad, other than the hard core simmers who have moved there from P3d"  .. what that comes across as is that the hard core simmers using that other sim are all/mostly ex-P3Ders. But now you're saying you meant that a majority of P3D users are now on that other sim, good that you clarified!
 

So by "Without the streaming it is just FSX wrapped in a bit more candy" you meant FSX in terms of looks only, ok even then I'd beg to differ.. but quite obviously apart from looks, the other sim is still much more than just FSX without the streaming.
 

Well ok, kinda pointless to compare the longevity of a company like LM with a company like MS don't you think lol. And no, "Microsoft gives up MSFS again" is not fact, and far from straightforward... what is straightforward however is that it is conjecture, yet again 🙂 
 

Again you are misconstruing my statement by not completing it - "The millions on the "Other Sim" are there because it is a fad, other than the hard core simmers who have moved there from P3d" I did not end the sentance there, there was a comma after P3d - "The millions on the "Other Sim" are there because it is a fad, other than the hard core simmers who have moved there from P3d, and the minority of newbies who may become hard core simmers."

You stated that I should not get emotionally attached to a sim, it sounds like you are very emotionally attached to yours. you say that Microsoft giving up MSFS again is not fact but conjecture, yet one of your main points was that sims come and go - "Those of us who've been flight simming long enough with all the sims that have come and gone know one thing for sure: the only constant is change." Therefore what on earth are you arguing about.

25 minutes ago, PavlinS said:

I disagree with you. Every single flight sim on the market has it's pro's and con's. That does not mean old simulators do not have a future. I think your basis of point is too short minded. As I said, every flight sim platform has it's pro's and con's. 

Old simulators can and do have a Personal Future, but they can’t and don’t have a Market Future.  That is the nature of business and capitalism and also don’t forget the many small developers who want to grab the brass ring of software development and sales. That ain’t gonna happen of you’re targeting the Flight Unlimited or Flight crowd.

-B

11 hours ago, Patriot3810 said:

I could really careless what you think about p3d v6, as far as i am concerned, MSFS is total garbage.

99% of the market obviously disagrees with you or they would not have moved platform! I load up P3Dv5 and it still feels like FSX with patches. It looks like a cartoon, even with orbx. I load up a vanilla MSFS 2020 and it looks almost real. 

Edited July 4, 20232 yr by YukonPete

37 minutes ago, Franschhoek said:

Again you are misconstruing my statement by not completing it - "The millions on the "Other Sim" are there because it is a fad, other than the hard core simmers who have moved there from P3d" I did not end the sentance there, there was a comma after P3d - "The millions on the "Other Sim" are there because it is a fad, other than the hard core simmers who have moved there from P3d, and the minority of newbies who may become hard core simmers."

You stated that I should not get emotionally attached to a sim, it sounds like you are very emotionally attached to yours. you say that Microsoft giving up MSFS again is not fact but conjecture, yet one of your main points was that sims come and go - "Those of us who've been flight simming long enough with all the sims that have come and gone know one thing for sure: the only constant is change." Therefore what on earth are you arguing about.

Lol ok keep explaining your statements away to mean something else other than what the words actually mean 🙂 ... yes, best to not get emotional, and me calling out your misinformation/conjecturing does not therefore equate to being "very emotionally attached" to that other sim 😂 Nor was I emotionally attached when I used P3D for years, or XP, or FSX, etc etc. Try to let go of this notion of "my" sim vs "your" sim tribalism nonsense.

Yes sim platforms come and go, and anything can happen in a business.. but "Microsoft gives up MSFS again" is not a fact, until it *actually* happens.. so ya, that is just conjecture at the moment.

In any case, I see no point continuing this further with you.
 

Edited July 4, 20232 yr by lwt1971

2 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

In any case, I see no point continuing this further with you.
 

Thank You. Your biased opinions towards your prefered sim didn't belong in this release thread to begin with.

13 minutes ago, btacon said:

Old simulators can and do have a Personal Future, but they can’t and don’t have a Market Future.  That is the nature of business and capitalism and also don’t forget the many small developers who want to grab the brass ring of software development and sales. That ain’t gonna happen of you’re targeting the Flight Unlimited or Flight crowd.

-B

If you actually read my signature you would know that I am not targeting any sim you imagine.

3 minutes ago, Garys said:

Thank You. Your biased opinions towards your prefered sim didn't belong in this release thread to begin with.

When blatant misinformation and/or conjecturing is called out I suppose that does not "belong" in this thread according to you... sure thing 🙂

Edited July 4, 20232 yr by lwt1971

1 minute ago, lwt1971 said:

When blatant misinformation and/or conjecturing is called out I suppose that does not "belong" in this thread according to you... sure thing 🙂

Keep on pickering. If you were that good in scenery development ORBX might had a competition. 

7 minutes ago, PavlinS said:

Keep on pickering. If you were that good in scenery development ORBX might had a competition. 

So your argument is reduced to ad hominem attacks?  Time to let it go friend.

-B

Just now, btacon said:

So your argument is reduced to ad hominem attacks?  Time to let it go friend.

-B

Whatever you say, Chicago. I am new in scenery development, but once I get my new hard drives I am planning on whole photoreal Malaysia. Not for MSFS2020. 

4 minutes ago, omarsmak30 said:

People kept saying this and yet the “other sim” has even massively grown. Not only this but is the first ever sim to include default planes with the same quality of payware or even better with high fidelity systems.

Sure it has, it is novel, it is new. I never stated that it was not the best today in visuals, default planes that are as good as payware, (but don't tell the developers that). I certainly do not hope, or want, Microsoft to abandon its sim again.

I will have to use precise sematics as some will probably take what i say out of context. It is a popular sim, but many gamers who have flocked to it, and note I said "Many and not All' and go to say the majority, That is more than 50% are there as gamers who will likely, but not inevitably, get bored with flying from place to place with nothing to blow up, or compete with. Thus the sim will reach a saturation point and then decline in users. It is the reason MSFS 2024 is being developed which has more action in it. 

The question that plagues this forum is that P3d is dead, useless and you might as well just get over it and move to MSFS. SOME OF US CANNOT AFFORD THAT even if we wanted to. The fact that developers have abandoned P3d in droves barring the few who realise that they cannot, in good conscience, has become the issue of this thread.

My point is that they are still selling addons at the same price that included upgrades from version to version, however there is no longer a version upgrade and there the usual price is a ripoff because that vital bit of version upgrades that used to be included is included no longer.

Instead of offering what they have spent a lot of money producing, at reduced rates to those still using P3d, in order to minimise whatever loss selling none of them will incur, they prefer to sell none, rather than offer them a reduced rates, which is kind of spiteful.

That is the point of my post!

As for MSFS2020 and 2024, I wish them all the best for as long as they last. If they last forever, all well and good.

But they will need continual growth, that is more and more people buying it to maintain the cost of its continued existance. Perhaps one should consider just how much server space, bandwidth and data costs it takes to run this sim every day, every month and in the years to come. They are going to need milions of sales every year just to cover their costs, never mind making a profit.