We all know that the ground physics in MSFS have "room for improvement". E.g. when standing on the runway, planes remain like glued to the runway even with very strong crosswind. Now I have found even weirder effects, please see below videos. To save you some time, watch the C172 especially from 1:30 min and 4:40 mins on.
As I switched to Linux and operate MSFS through Steam, I'm wondering whether that is the reason. Can anyone confirm the the shown behavior?

 

 

4 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

We all know that the ground physics in MSFS have "room for improvement". E.g. when standing on the runway, planes remain like glued to the runway even with very strong crosswind.

I have the opposite experience: Smaller aircraft like the Comanche or Caravan are sometimes pushed around by even a mild breeze. Tiedowns and wheelchocks have no effect but even the manual brake should prevent this from happening.

Hmmmm, it's a Linux thing for sure... make sure you update to the latest Ubuntu release - they've fixed it !

That's why a major aircraft developer had to go Ubuntu on their flight management systems. Their airliners went freaking mad on ground under strong xwinds, and crew were complaining a lot. Now they're on the latest Ubuntu release and it's a whole new world !

Edited November 1, 20232 yr by jcomm

1 hour ago, orchestra_nl said:

I have the opposite experience: Smaller aircraft like the Comanche or Caravan are sometimes pushed around by even a mild breeze. Tiedowns and wheelchocks have no effect but even the manual brake should prevent this from happening.

Do you mean the A2A Comanche and the (default) Caravan?
However, from what I have experienced - see other videos on my channel - e.g. the (default) CTSL (a really light aircraft) stays glued to the rwy at extreme crosswind     - see video below. Even if this would be correct, the Wright Flyer moving forward and the C172 sucked into the wind at a certain crosswind is ridiculous - as long this is not a MSFS on Linux/Steam effect ... That's the reason why I asked.
Also the highly praised iniBuilds A310 stays glued to the rwy, although iniBuilds claimed there is no difference to the version in "the other" sim.

 

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

Hmmmm, it's a Linux thing for sure... make sure you update to the latest Ubuntu release - they've fixed it !

That's why a major aircraft developer had to go Ubuntu on their flight management systems. Their airliners went freaking mad on ground under strong xwinds, and crew were complaining a lot. Now they're on the latest Ubuntu release and it's a whole new world !

😮 Do you have sources for that? Still, I don't understand yet the conjunction of flight management systems with crosswinds. Can you enlighten me? 😉

57 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

Do you mean the A2A Comanche and the (default) Caravan?
However, from what I have experienced - see other videos on my channel - e.g. the (default) CTSL (a really light aircraft) stays glued to the rwy at extreme crosswind     - see video below. Even if this would be correct, the Wright Flyer moving forward and the C172 sucked into the wind at a certain crosswind is ridiculous - as long this is not a MSFS on Linux/Steam effect ... That's the reason why I asked.

The A2A Comanche and BlackSquare Caravan but I have seen it with other light aircraft as well. Also, on takeoff with crosswind I notice the nose will turn into the wind because of the crosswind pushing against the tail. In In principal this is correct behaviour.
It is weird that in your case aircraft seem to be glued. I cannot think why the operating system or Steam vs Store installation should make a difference though.

23 minutes ago, orchestra_nl said:

The A2A Comanche and BlackSquare Caravan but I have seen it with other light aircraft as well. Also, on takeoff with crosswind I notice the nose will turn into the wind because of the crosswind pushing against the tail. In In principal this is correct behaviour.
It is weird that in your case aircraft seem to be glued. I cannot think why the operating system or Steam vs Store installation should make a difference though.

My A2A doesn't do that. but I use Windows 10. 

1 hour ago, flying_carpet said:

 

😮 Do you have sources for that? Still, I don't understand yet the conjunction of flight management systems with crosswinds. Can you enlighten me? 😉

Top secret ! Sorry 😁

Jokes apart MFS started using some SU's ago, an alternative method for coping with the still not complete modelling of ground physics that ASOBO plans to implement further ahead.

Ground physics and wind on ground - Bug Reports / Aircraft & Systems - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

One of the parameters that aircraft developers can opt for defines a speed bellow which there is no normal component of wind on ground:

ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed = 1000
ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed = 15

Above that speed ( rolling ) the aircraft will progressively be exposed to the real normal values.

This approach can be combined with other parameters to help fine tunning ground physics:

ground_high_speed_steeringwheel_static_friction_scalar = 1.0
ground_high_speed_otherwheel_static_friction_scalar = 1.0

Edited November 1, 20232 yr by jcomm

2 hours ago, orchestra_nl said:

The A2A Comanche and BlackSquare Caravan but I have seen it with other light aircraft as well. Also, on takeoff with crosswind I notice the nose will turn into the wind because of the crosswind pushing against the tail. In In principal this is correct behaviour.
It is weird that in your case aircraft seem to be glued. I cannot think why the operating system or Steam vs Store installation should make a difference though.

I asked specifically for the default aircraft which are shown in the videos (that's the reason why they are called "MSFS 2020 ground physics (part 5): default Wright Flyer" and "MSFS 2020 ground physics (part 6): default C172" 😉). Even the iniBuilds A310 as a default plane (although basically a payware addon) shows the "glued" behavior.
I also don't really think it's a "Steam vs. Store thing", but who knows? 🙃 I have often observed weird behavior in software environments ...
So, I assume A2A and BlackSquare circumvented somehow the MSFS handling like PMDG, A2A, ... did during FSX times from what I read?

 

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

Top secret ! Sorry 😁

Jokes apart MFS started using some SU's ago, an alternative method for coping with the still not complete modelling of ground physics that ASOBO plans to implement further ahead.

Ground physics and wind on ground - Bug Reports / Aircraft & Systems - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

One of the parameters that aircraft developers can opt for defines a speed bellow which there is no normal component of wind on ground:

ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed = 1000
ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed = 15

Above that speed ( rolling ) the aircraft will progressively be exposed to the real normal values.

This approach can be combined with other parameters to help fine tunning ground physics:

ground_high_speed_steeringwheel_static_friction_scalar = 1.0
ground_high_speed_otherwheel_static_friction_scalar = 1.0

Does that mean that they will "cheat" somehow without calculating the behavior?

7 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Can anyone confirm the the shown behavior?

I can confirm it, the ground handling is poor, among other things.

Case closed, I guess we can wrap this up! Thanks for the discussion everyone, very enlightening.

I thought the absence of realistic ground physics was a well known limitation of MSFS and something that will need to be enhanced iteratively over time. I am sure it has nothing to do with using Ubuntu or Steam it is just a well known limitation. It is one area I am hoping will be much better addressed in 2024.

2 hours ago, Cognita said:

I thought the absence of realistic ground physics was a well known limitation of MSFS and something that will need to be enhanced iteratively over time. I am sure it has nothing to do with using Ubuntu or Steam it is just a well known limitation. It is one area I am hoping will be much better addressed in 2024.

In my experience it has improved significantly. When it first came out, every time I executed a takeoff roll it looked like I'd been drinking heavily. No matter what plane I used, it was weaving all over the runway. Now, it's possible to get the thing off the ground without 300 direction changes on the roll. In its current state ground handling is much better than FSX/P3d. In those sims, any speed above 5kt or so turned the runways to ice and my airplane into a Zamboni. Severe understeer no matter what. Drove me nuts. It's certainly not perfect in its current state, but it's been markedly improved.

 

I also thought OPs testing of ground physics with the Wright Flyer was silly. That thing didn't have ground handling. It launched off a rail and skidded to a stop on sand. Turning wasn't part of the equation.

I'll cop to the weird shift toward the wind at the lower limits of wind effect on the plane in the Cessna video, but to me the most unrealistic part was that a non-tied down Cessna in those windspeeds should have been tossed around like a toy rather than almost sedately weathervaning into the wind. The crosswind component on those things is somewhere south of 20kts for a reason, and in 50-60kts many owners would be looking for a hangar to stick it in because they wouldn't trust the tiedowns.

 

 

Yep that looks like a bug. Workaround would be to not fly in those conditions 😄

But hopefully the ground improvement fixes come one day. 

1 hour ago, NZ255 said:

Yep that looks like a bug. Workaround would be to not fly in those conditions 😄

But hopefully the ground improvement fixes come one day. 

I'm confident too. The ASOBO team is amazing, full of passion and dedication. In december will be release the SU14. They are keeping to refine the sim and put solid basis for the 2024 one. They hired the head of il-2 sturmovik game and can't wait for the 2024. I'm super confident

It seems to me that some people don’t like criticism of their chosen sim. Pointing out things they feel is wrong is not trolling. It’s having a different opinion. Imagine how boring the world would be if we all had the same opinion.

Don’t insult people you disagree with. Challenge them to prove what they claim is true. And if they challenge you to prove otherwise be prepared to defend your case.

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It seems to me that some people don’t like criticism of their chosen sim. Pointing out things they feel is wrong is not trolling. It’s having a different opinion. Imagine how boring the world would be if we all had the same opinion.

Don’t insult people you disagree with. Challenge them to prove what they claim is true. And if they challenge you to prove otherwise be prepared to defend your case.

Respectfully disagree. If someone is complaining about ground handling being wrong and the first video they show is of the Wright Flyer - ground handling for which involved a team of men lifting it onto a rail - they're pretty obviously not being a serious critic of genuine issues.