MSFS tops Navigraph 2023 survey results

[Krakin 5,832]

31 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

My comments have nothing to do with a preference for a particular flight sim. Rather, I'm focused on deflating the amusing mal-assumptive predjudice of a few folks.

Urgent, you're barking up the wrong tree. Abrams made no inference about quality in his post but he did make statements about demographics. Someone did make a statement about quality but you chose to quote Abrams. The majority of users indicated that they use navigraph so Abrams is completely in the right to assume that most of the respondents aren't spinning their sims up to fly under bridges. Without bringing quality into it, we can see that MSFS is more preferred among all sorts of users.

[UrgentSiesta 936]

55 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Many in the survey who stuck with XP did so because they use operating systems that can't host MSFS (i.e., Macs).

I can't seem to find that metric in the survey (or anywhere), - can you point us to it?

According to Laminar Research, the majority of their players run Windows (just like the majority of computer users in general).

[lwt1971 7,453]

3 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

People's choice in consumer products (particularly inexpensive ones where Impulse Purchases play a great role) are clearly driven by criteria far broader than "superiority". This is why I chose the easy (and undisputable) analogy of Dodge Ram vs Toyota Tundra.

Could I then use the (also indisputable) fact that there are no commercially certified flight simulators based on MSFS to "prove" that X-Plane is "superior"...?

Or more pointedly, that Prepar3D remains the 800lb gorilla of commercial IRL flight sim to prove its superiority over both...?

Or, as you yourself have so frequently stated, the "important considerations" are completely up to the 3PD addon devs and have little to do with what ultimate fidelity the sim is capable of...

The Navigraph survey only proves that MSFS is the most popular flight sim. The "why's" of that fact are many and varied.

Yes the "why's" could be many and varied, but it also doesn't take leaps in thinking to glean what's being shown in the survey results.

No one knows people's motivations for choosing one product over another, and what is "superior" is subjective and comes down to what these folks consider important ranging from cost of the product, to its features, and on and on. At least we can say that cost is not a significant differentiating factor with the current flight sim platforms.

So given that, these surveys from the last two years show a group of ~23,000 folks who consider flight/aeronautical realism aspects as their #1 factor (and visual fidelity as #2) in a sim platform also chose MSFS by a wide margin. And that's not really surprising since those who tend to take the Navigraph survey are the "serious simming" kind. Clearly at the very least we can say these folks prefer MSFS. Now of course we can't know for sure that this means they think it's "superior".. but given that costs are not differentiating enough, and given that a great majority of them are using Windows-based PCs, they likely decided based on the features of the sim platforms, and I'd therefore say the chances of these specific folks considering MSFS as superior is high (IMO of course). Now whether we're to take the opinions of ~23k folks to speak for the entire flight simming community of course is another matter, but extrapolations can certainly be made (especially useful to 3rd party developers).
 

Edited December 23, 2023 by lwt1971

[Fielder 3,707]

[UrgentSiesta 936]

9 minutes ago, Fielder said:

Except my favorite flight sim is (....gasp...!!!) Russian.

And one of my favorite addons therein is... (...gasp...!!) Chinese - as in PRC.

And I've been flying the excellent MS FS 2020 since Day 1.

And Prepar3D before that.

And FSX before that.

And X-Plane before that.

But you keep right on with your amusing "deductions".

[Fielder 3,707]

 

Actually I love France, and I'm just being silly, pretending to be the "ugly American". I don't really think like that... 🙃

[Dermot McClusky 510]

12 hours ago, snglecoil said:

Ah yes…the annual “most predictable Avsim thread” of the year. Let me go grab some coffee. Anybody want to wager the number of pages until closure? I don’t know…maybe it’s the hope of the Christmas season, but I’m optimistically going to go with 7.

You're close to losing your bet, but at least you won't go over! (I assume we're going Price is Right rules?)

[Stearmandriver 2,324]

On 12/22/2023 at 6:53 AM, ha5mvo said:

33% casual gaming. Yep Indeed reflective of the current situation.

It's consumer software on a desktop computer or console.  What else could you realistically call it?  That's what we're all doing with this stuff...

[ark 1,295]

As this thread begins to wind down a bit (I think), I am already eagerly looking forward to next year's Avsim post Navigraph Survey thread. And next time I will be better prepared with an ample supply of popcorn and cold drinks. I just need to decide before purchasing the popcorn if I'm a casual or hardcore popcorn consumer, but fortunately there is time.   🤔 😉

Al

Edited December 23, 2023 by ark

[SAS443 1,729]

1 minute ago, ark said:

I just need to decide before purchasing the popcorn if I'm a casual or hardcore popcorn consumer,

Actually. Thanks to recently attained wisdom, that totally depends on your age, Ark.

Edited December 23, 2023 by SAS443

[snglecoil 1,828]

44 minutes ago, Dermot McClusky said:

You're close to losing your bet, but at least you won't go over! (I assume we're going Price is Right rules?)

What can I say? Hope has exceeded expectations! 

[ark 1,295]

38 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

Actually. Thanks to recently attained wisdom, that totally depends on your age, Ark.

Another factor potentially complicating a popcorn purchase is I've heard a new and improved Popcorn2024 variety is expected on the market next year. Wonder if it will be for the casual or hardcore popcorn consumer, or perhaps it just doesn't make any difference? 😉

Al

Edited December 23, 2023 by ark

[scotchegg 4,232]

20 minutes ago, ark said:

Wonder if it will be for the casual or hardcore popcorn consumer, or perhaps it just doesn't make any difference? 😉

Well, you see popcorn consumption and trends are directly analogous to SUV sales, so if people express a preference for buttered over salted, that means Cybertruck is pants.

[Scottoest 1,561]

17 hours ago, snglecoil said:

Ah yes…the annual “most predictable Avsim thread” of the year. Let me go grab some coffee. Anybody want to wager the number of pages until closure? I don’t know…maybe it’s the hope of the Christmas season, but I’m optimistically going to go with 7.

Pretty much,  Could've set my watch to the annual "filet mignon vs. McDonalds", insert-sim-here is for real simmers versus console kiddies who just want nice looking scenery (albeit usually a bit more passive with the condescension), it wasn't a scientific survey, etc. 'um ackshually' responses across the various threads about the survey results.

It's a voluntary census of the community, that almost certainly skews towards a more "hardcore" simming audience by virtue of being conducted by Navigraph.  From that, I would hazard a guess that MSFS is actually a bit UNDER-represented in these results relative to the entire base of people who use flight sims, buy add-ons, etc.  simbol mentioned that their console sales are actually more like 20-30%, yet console was low single digits in the survey -  that might provide an anecdotal insight into some of the people who aren't represented in the results.

Apart from that, it's just an interesting snapshot of where the more "core" community is at, and isn't really worth arguing over.  The one eyebrow raiser for me was P3D being under 5%, despite v6 releasing.

[abrams_tank 7,449]

23 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Sorry, correlation isn't causation.

For e.g., does the fact that the Dodge Ram truck handily outsold the Toyota Tundra or, well, EVERY model of Honda, Toyota, Subaru, et al in 2023 mean that it's a superior vehicle for "hard core" family transportation?

I saw you create multiple comments off of my one paragraph and cause a lot of controversy with others.  But please read what I wrote carefully as I used the word "prefer":

Quote

And as @Krakin pointed out, only 2.6% of Navigraph survey users were primarily using consoles. This means the vast majority of Navigraph survey users are probably "hard core" flight simmers. And what flight simulator do the "hard core" flight simmers prefer? Yup, that's right. The "hard core" flight simmers prefer MSFS (FYI, this is not surprising, as Avsim is mostly made up of hard core flight simmers, and the overwhelming majority of Avsim are active in the MSFS forum now).

I was referring to the Navigraph chart where it says "Simulator Preference":

 

Nowhere in my paragraph that you referenced did I mention "quality" or what is "superior."  I don't know how you came up with that.  Again, please read my paragraph carefully.  And if this is settled, I hope we can move on to other discussions.

Edited December 24, 2023 by abrams_tank