MSFS tops Navigraph 2023 survey results

[Ricardo41 6,029]

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

MSFS is made by game developers.  Asobo ARE game developers.  Not an opinion.  It's fact. 

P3D is owned by Lockheed Martin.  I'd say they're highly reputable, and know what they're doing.

X-Plane is owned by Austin Meyer.  Engineer, pilot, programmer.

And this is really all you need to understand when it comes to figuring out why MSFS 2020 has been such a success. Thanks for summarizing this so succinctly. 

Handing over the franchise to Asobo was one of the best decisions Microsoft ever made!

[jcomm 6,209]

Honestly this all series of arg / counter arg regarding the results of the last Navigraph survey is perfectly useless, IMO...

The NET RESULTS are obvious, even if it hearts guys like me who would like to see P3D less "disdained"...

Bias?  The Survey was open to all simmers willing to participate, and just like in other editions was made public and widely announced, so, if users of any of the platforms decided not to participate that's surely because they didn't really find it worth doing so, and that, I believe, tells me also a lot about their position regarding those other than MFS sims.... At least every Navigraph user, which covers pretty much all widely used platforms we know about ( less Aerofly and the Combat sims ) received an email, even if she / he , doesn't even know AVSIM exists...

What the results mean to me is that more than anytime before in the history of desktop flight simulation MFS 2020, and for sure and maybe even more MFS 2024 when released next year, was able to "move mountains" and bring the highest ever simmers crowd to playing it, for the most different reasons / interests... being it in a console or in a laptop or desktop... MFS appeals to ANY simmer, and even I who am well known for being a specialist in hijacking my own pleasures by instead of enjoying them trying to find negative aspects and to trash them, can't resist the delight of an airline sim session in MFS using any of the now 3 airliners I use the most - PMDG 737-700, FENIX A320 and FBW 320 N....

MFS is 2nd to none in terms of functionality available through a default install. It get's updates that used to cost a little fortune to get in P3D and were never even by close available for a platform like XP.... It's also by far the most efficient and well performing / smother experience I ever had in any of the platforms I used, for the level of graphics detail it provides.

It makes planning and "flying" and enjoying a simple airline simulation flight from A to B an experience that excels in the feel of "being there", by default functionality such as Airport activity and even AI Traffic, Weather depiction which I have to confess I find 2nd to no other platform, although I still think Active Sky P3D does an even better job in some aspects, and even the level of detail of the addons I use, with some of them being default aircraft... Heck, in either XP or P3D I can't find ANY default aircraft with that level of detail !

This is me who, as you all know, will easily jump in favour of X-Plane for the flight dynamics and some details of systems modelling, or P3D for the stability of the platform ( 5.4, as stable as a mummified defunct, but still as admirable to use as when we visit the sarcophagus in a Museum...) and the unique addons it still provides me with, like the FSLabs 319/20/21, iFly 737 MAX and Active Sky... But I believe even those reasons have been fading off, and the way and pace at which new addons and updates are made available by an active team like ASOBO will most surely bring to MFS the same quality and joy.

What the Navigraph shows at least to me is that MFS 2020 is the most successful EVER general purpose civil flight simulator released since 1982 when I started trying flight simulators.... It shows that I am surely not alone, but that the great majority of flight simulation users think the same way, even if they're open minded enough to keep using other flight simulators like, for instance, Aerofly FS 4 which I hear and you2see it's great in many aspects too, or guys like me see in Airlinetools FlightDeck A32x and Aerowinx PSX.... 

Edited December 28, 2023 by jcomm

[GCBraun 2,525]

2 hours ago, GoranM said:

MSFS is made by game developers.  Asobo ARE game developers.  Not an opinion.  It's fact. 

And that is precisely because it is so popular.

Even though I am also an XP12 enthusiast, using MSFS is a more enjoyable experience overall precisely because the latest gaming technologies were used. 

The foundation built by Asobo is extremely good when we compared to what we get with P3D and XP out of the box. 

Perhaps you don’t know this, but all main MSFS Devs got their PPLs before the sim was released. That is why, besides the virtual world, MSFS has also remarkable built-in capabilities in terms of flight planning, navdata, default aircraft and avionics. 

[lwt1971 8,077]

3 hours ago, GoranM said:

Speaking of the majority by a wide margin...could you link your source for this majority?  

It's all easily available to read and understand without much difficulty from the past two years' survey reports/data, as well as earlier in this thread.

But since you want links and sources again, sure why not.

So firstly there is the result that approx 70% use MSFS as their primary simulator, with 13.x% XP, and 4.x% P3D (so that's the wide margin). Similar result last year but margins a little less wide with MSFS at 65% or so.

Now from the last two years of survey these are the results about sim and aircraft factors that respondents consider important (from my post earlier in the thread): Last year when asked to rate various factors of flight simulators as "very important", "important", "indifferent", etc the results showed that a realistic aerodynamic model was the #1 answer with 60% rating it as very important, and 35% rating it as important. The #2 factor was realistic world graphics with 50% rating it as very important and 40% rating it as important. This year for the question about most important factors in a sim aircraft, the answers were: systems complexity - 38%, realism and authenticity - 26.6%, flight model accuracy - 17.4%, graphics/visuals - 10.4%

Now when one looks at the primary sim choice result with above results about most important sim factors, one can easily conclude a majority (by a wide margin) who say MSFS is their primary sim, *also* consider flight realism the most important factor in a sim and sim aircraft.

Given all that, for the people who like to push the narrative that MSFS is for "entertainment" only, or is just a "scenery generator"... Well, that narrative just falls flat when considering the last two years of surveys of over 20k simmers, and serious simmer at that given the audience Navigraph reaches.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by lwt1971

[GoranM 3,931]

18 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

It's all easily available to read and understand without much difficulty from the past two years' survey reports/data, as well as earlier in this thread.

But since you want links and sources again, sure why not.

So firstly there is the result that approx 70% use MSFS as their primary simulator, with 13.x% XP, and 4.x% P3D (so that's the wide margin). Similar result last year but margins a little less wide with MSFS at 65% or so.

Now from the last two years of survey these are the results about sim and aircraft factors that respondents consider important (from my post earlier in the thread): Last year when asked to rate various factors of flight simulators as "very important", "important", "indifferent", etc the results showed that a realistic aerodynamic model was the #1 answer with 60% rating it as very important, and 35% rating it as important. The #2 factor was realistic world graphics with 50% rating it as very important and 40% rating it as important. This year for the question about most important factors in a sim aircraft, the answers were: systems complexity - 38%, realism and authenticity - 26.6%, flight model accuracy - 17.4%, graphics/visuals - 10.4%

Now when one looks at the primary sim choice result with above results about most important sim factors, one can easily conclude a majority (by a wide margin) who say MSFS is their primary sim, *also* consider flight realism the most important factor in a sim and sim aircraft.

Given all that, for the people who like to push the narrative that MSFS is for "entertainment" only, or is just a "scenery generator"... Well, that narrative just falls flat when considering the last two years of surveys of over 20k simmers, and serious simmer at that given the audience Navigraph reaches.

 

And you say I don’t read statements. 
I give up. MSFS is king. Everything else is meh. 

 

23 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

And that is precisely because it is so popular.

Even though I am also an XP12 enthusiast, using MSFS is a more enjoyable experience overall precisely because the latest gaming technologies were used. 

The foundation built by Asobo is extremely good when we compared to what we get with P3D and XP out of the box. 

Perhaps you don’t know this, but all main MSFS Devs got their PPLs before the sim was released. That is why, besides the virtual world, MSFS has also remarkable built-in capabilities in terms of flight planning, navdata, default aircraft and avionics. 

I don’t disagree with anything you just said. Like I said, I speak to devs from all platforms on a regular basis. Thankfully, there’s no tribalism. 

[flying_carpet 692]

30 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

So firstly there is the result that approx 70% use MSFS as their primary simulator, with 13.x% XP, and 4.x% P3D (so that's the wide margin). Similar result last year but margins a little less wide with MSFS at 65% or so.

Now from the last two years of survey these are the results about sim and aircraft factors that respondents consider important (from my post earlier in the thread): Last year when asked to rate various factors of flight simulators as "very important", "important", "indifferent", etc the results showed that a realistic aerodynamic model was the #1 answer with 60% rating it as very important, and 35% rating it as important. The #2 factor was realistic world graphics with 50% rating it as very important and 40% rating it as important. This year for the question about most important factors in a sim aircraft, the answers were: systems complexity - 38%, realism and authenticity - 26.6%, flight model accuracy - 17.4%, graphics/visuals - 10.4%

Riiiight 😁 - so, I interpret your statement as following: "... the results showed that a realistic aerodynamic model was the #1 answer with 60% rating it as very important, and 35% rating it as important. .... And that's why approx 70% use MSFS as their primary simulator."

Riiiight - (don't pin me down on the exact figures) so, you may know that if people get asked what is very (or the most) important for them when buying food, the responses are usually - say 42% of them are saying : "high quality and produced locally to save the environment, even if it is more expensive". However ,the real figures are: only 10% are buying high quality and produced locally, the rest is buying the lesser quality.

Edited December 28, 2023 by flying_carpet

[lwt1971 8,077]

8 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

Riiiight 😁 - so, I interpret your statement as following: "... the results showed that a realistic aerodynamic model was the #1 answer with 60% rating it as very important, and 35% rating it as important. .... And that's why approx 70% use MSFS as their primary simulator."

Riiiight - (don't pin me down on the exact figures) so, you may know that if people get asked what is very (or the most) important for them when buying food, the responses are usually - say 42% of them are saying : "high quality and produced locally to save the environment, even if it is more expensive". However ,the real figures are: only 10% are buying high quality and produced locally, the rest is buying the lesser quality.

Ummm not quite sure what your word salad is trying to convey, but let's try again:

What I'm saying is, the 23k respondents said flight realism is the most important factor.. 70% of them also said MSFS is their primary simulator.

So, at the very least one should be able to confidently conclude these simmers would *not* be responding in the way they did if MSFS was only about visuals, only about entertainment, was bad at flight realism, <insert pet narrative here>, etc

[lwt1971 8,077]

36 minutes ago, GoranM said:

And you say I don’t read statements. 
I give up. MSFS is king. Everything else is meh.

A valiant attempt at dramatic theater. Do try (if that's even possible for you) not to put words in people's mouths, or conflate/exaggerate, or talk besides the point, etc.. it really helps with the "actual discussion" you supposedly seek to have.

When did I say MSFS is king etc etc lol? See my response to carpet above for an even shorter summary of it, if you are genuinely not getting it yet. 

[GoranM 3,931]

2 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

A valiant attempt at dramatic theater. Do try (if that's even possible for you) not to put words in people's mouths, or conflate/exaggerate, or talk besides the point, etc.. it really helps with the "actual discussion" you supposedly seek to have.

Ok

2 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

When did I say MSFS is king etc etc lol?

You didn’t. I’m just quitting because there really is no point in continuing a discussion where you simply won’t budge. 

[lwt1971 8,077]

1 minute ago, GoranM said:

You didn’t. I’m just quitting because there really is no point in continuing a discussion where you simply won’t budge. 

Not budging from what? 🙂

I'm just talking about survey data that counters certain narratives about MSFS. Nothing to budge on here as it's numbers from the survey. And I only engaged with you since you keep quoting me 🤷‍♂️

[GoranM 3,931]

1 minute ago, lwt1971 said:

Not budging from what? 🙂

I'm just talking about survey data that counters certain narratives about MSFS. 

So I don’t have to repeat myself, go over the last page or 2. See if you can find it. 

[lwt1971 8,077]

Just now, GoranM said:

So I don’t have to repeat myself, go over the last page or 2. See if you can find it. 

You should definitely take you own advice of re-reading.

[GoranM 3,931]

7 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

You should definitely take you own advice of re-reading.

Where did that come from?  You asked me to clarify something. I asked you to go over the last couple of pages. Now you try to flip it?  There’s no reasoning with you, at all. 

[Rimshot 1,280]

1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

What I'm saying is, the 23k respondents said flight realism is the most important factor.. 70% of them also said MSFS is their primary simulator.

So, at the very least one should be able to confidently conclude these simmers would *not* be responding in the way they did if MSFS was only about visuals, only about entertainment, was bad at flight realism, <insert pet narrative here>, etc

I also voted flight realism as the most important factor. MSFS is very satisfactory to me in this regard. One could also conclude someone who chooses realism as the most important factor chooses MSFS as primary sim, despite flight realism being of lesser quality than other sims (as many argue), but because the total package is more appealing.

[threexgreen 3,315]

 

5 hours ago, GoranM said:

But what do I know. I make add ons for the inferior, less realistic flight sim.  I'm part of a cult.  I'm part of a gang.  I'm "You people".  So I must be wrong.  Right?

I wasn't going to get in on this again but since you've twice now quoted a phrase I used in another thread some time ago it really seems to bother you. I said "you people", as in "you guys", to refer to XPers posting in the MSFS forum. That's all. I'm genuinely not sure what's so upsetting about it, but if it came across as rude I apologize, it wasn't meant to be.

I do want to say however let's not pretend there are no XPers that do what you're referring to in what I quoted here. It's happened plenty of times, on of which spawned the aforementioned sticky thread. It's coming from virtually all sides/sim camps, unfortunately.