Double post.

Edited December 28, 20232 yr by threegreen

2 hours ago, Krakin said:

The last time a navigraph thread was made in here, the mods shipped it off to hangar chat. The title was worded in a way to avoid that happening again. In any case the title is not expressing an opinion,  it is stating an objective fact. If people can't live with it and feel the need to come in here and be willfully obtuse in order to try to downplay things, the problem is with them and not the OP.

My point is MSFS is the leader in the entertainment part of flight-siming and bringing in new users but lacks from the rest on siming as being the more realistic and that is why some others use better options (P3D or XPlane). MSFS has work to do as far as simulation instead of just being a scenery generator and gimmicks this is coming from someone who uses it Moderately it needs work (flight physics).

This thread should have  been in the Hangar Chat days ago.

Edited December 28, 20232 yr by JBDB-MD80

9 minutes ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

My point is MSFS is the leader in the entertainment part of flight-siming and bringing in new users but lacks from the rest on siming as being the more realistic and that is why some others use better options (P3D or XPlane). MSFS has work to do as far as simulation instead of just being a scenery generator and gimmicks this is coming from someone who uses it Moderately it needs work (flight physics).

This thread should have  been in the Hangar Chat days ago.

I agree with you, but jeez, you're brave.

 

Also, not directed at you, just a general bit of info to see the correlation.  The link I posted a few pages ago, to the other (X-Plane dedicated) forum, is now locked due to "bickering" between X-Plane regulars and a non X-Plane user.  But there'll be those in here blaming the X-Plane "cult".

Edited December 28, 20232 yr by GoranM

47 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I agree with you, but jeez, you're brave.

 

Also, not directed at you, 

No pun taken but reality is a second option here. Keep programming and do the best for the sim you chose to program for. 

Edited December 28, 20232 yr by JBDB-MD80

2 hours ago, GoranM said:

I know what the term means.  But even the mods called it something else.  Just because you don't like something someone else posts, doesn't mean they're a knucklehead, troublemaker or a goofball.  Can't it just be someone you don't agree with?

I never said that I did not like anything that anyone said.

Someone simply pointed out that that post existed, and I simply posted the exact, truthful reason that the mentioned thread was needed. It had nothing to do with this particular thread, or any statement made by anyone in it.

The sad truth of the matter is that people have in the past, showed up and trolled or otherwise disrupted a thread for the sole purpose of entertaining themselves. I stand by my statement that people who do that are knuckleheads.

2 hours ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

 it Moderately it needs work (flight physics).

The flight physics are better than most sims out there. the aircraft devs just need to put the work into taking full advantage of them.

55 minutes ago, MDFlier said:

It had nothing to do with this particular thread, or any statement made by anyone in it.

I realize this.

55 minutes ago, MDFlier said:

The sad truth of the matter is that people have in the past, showed up and trolled or otherwise disrupted a thread for the sole purpose of entertaining themselves.

From what I've seen, it's been reactionary.  I have a library of links and the posts the links point to, to prove my point.  Most of the time, those posts are left alone.  But sometimes people want to jump in and respond.  How those responses are interpreted are subject to debate.  I'm happy to show you examples, but for obvious reasons, I'd rather do it in private.  

I'm sure you've seen at least 3 examples of, shall we say, inappropriate comments.

"You people"

"The X-Plane cult"

"You and your gang"

And then there's the famous, "I have 10 thousand hours in a C172 and 120 hours in a level d sim, and I say X-Plane is junk." with the repetitive and boring VHS vs Betamax comparison.  Conversely, even I draw the line at the McDonalds vs independent restaurant comparison.  

Even in that locked thread on the X-Plane dedicated forum, there's a post that mentions another regular in here, in a mocking tone, and it got the most likes.  Now that's notoriety for all the wrong reasons.

Edited December 28, 20232 yr by GoranM

30 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

The flight physics are better than most sims out there. the aircraft devs just need to put the work into taking full advantage of them.

Yeah and what sim its that? most RWP prefer Xplane . nothing is wrong with that in that perspective 

1 hour ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

 most RWP prefer Xplane . 

Oh, that’s interesting. Was that shown in the survey results? 

7 hours ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

My point is MSFS is the leader in the entertainment part of flight-siming and bringing in new users but lacks from the rest on siming as being the more realistic and that is why some others use better options (P3D or XPlane). MSFS has work to do as far as simulation instead of just being a scenery generator and gimmicks this is coming from someone who uses it Moderately it needs work (flight physics).

This thread should have  been in the Hangar Chat days ago.

That's great that you think that and it's your opinion. The opinions of others including many of us who've used all sims are that MSFS doesn't lack in flight realism. I suppose there are those like you who think and cast it as a "scenery generator and gimmicks" only and/or for-entertainment only 🙂, but that's an opinion among many other opinions. Everyone obviously has different standards on what features (or lack thereof) matter to them.

The survey also shows that a majority opinion (by a wide margin) is that MSFS is great for both flight realism *and* scenery. That's just basic facts from the respondents. If one feels that other sims are better for flight realism that's perfectly fine of course, but then trying to portray the sim results' majority opinion as something to fit your opinion/narrative is rather silly.

Also, being able to discuss the aspects of the survey related to MSFS, on an MSFS forum, is not an unusual thing. Especially when the survey is a fairly big effort conducted by Navigraph and the partnership of many major flight sim devs, stakeholders, and sim platform companies even, etc.

Edited December 28, 20232 yr by lwt1971

2 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

The survey also shows that a majority opinion (by a wide margin) is that MSFS is great for both flight realism *and* scenery. That's just basic facts from the respondents.

So it’s opinion AND basic facts?  

Just now, GoranM said:

So it’s opinion AND basic facts?  

Sigh.. there you go again by not understanding what is written, or willfully putting words in our mouths.

I'll repeat again: the majority by a wide margin chose MSFS, and also cited flight realism as the #1 factor in flight sims and sim aircraft. *That* is a fact (i.e. how the survey results panned out). What they chose as their answers are *their* opinions .. is that clearer for you now? 🙂

48 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Sigh.. there you go again by not understanding what is written, or willfully putting words in our mouths.

I'll repeat again: the majority by a wide margin chose MSFS, and also cited flight realism as the #1 factor in flight sims and sim aircraft. *That* is a fact (i.e. how the survey results panned out). What they chose as their answers are *their* opinions .. is that clearer for you now? 🙂

Sigh...Actually, you said...(and I figured you would break out the word gymnastics)

57 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

That's just basic facts from the respondents.

So it's very easy to interpret that as the respondents claiming that MSFS doesn't lack flight realism, is "basic facts".

Perhaps articulate a little more.  Otherwise I wouldn't have to ask the question.

Speaking of the majority by a wide margin...could you link your source for this majority?  So by all means, I'm very interested in actual numbers.  A person who just "sim's" is far from reputable when it comes to opinions of real world aircraft.  I've come across many people who actually felt confident they could land a 747 after logging a few hundred hours in the PMDG 747.  SMH doesn't even begin to describe it.

At least TRY to have a discussion, without the condescending remarks, seeing as you claim to be a big proponent of it.

 

Let's add to this a little.  Pilot A swears by MSFS.  Pilot B swears by P3D.  Pilot C swears by X-Plane.  

All pilots have equal hours in whatever license you choose to associate them to.  Let's go all the way.  ATPL.  

Who's right?  

OR

Does it matter who's right?  

Let's dive a little more.

MSFS is made by game developers.  Asobo ARE game developers.  Not an opinion.  It's fact. 

P3D is owned by Lockheed Martin.  I'd say they're highly reputable, and know what they're doing.

X-Plane is owned by Austin Meyer.  Engineer, pilot, programmer.

Far be it from me to display my opinion on the party who I think would be least to most reputable when it comes to certain aspects of a flight sim, even though I used to hold a PPL, and I've had airlines purchase licenses to my add ons for their own pilot training.

But what do I know. I make add ons for the inferior, less realistic flight sim.  I'm part of a cult.  I'm part of a gang.  I'm "You people".  So I must be wrong.  Right?

I'm relieved you represent a small minority of people.  I've had many DM's from people who, shall we say, disagree with you, and a select few of you.  But the common thread of these DM's?  And I'm paraphrasing..."I hope they don't turn you off from bringing your add ons to MSFS some day."

Edited December 28, 20232 yr by GoranM

13 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Well, given like I said the survey respondents are skewed towards the more "serious" kind i.e. those using Navigraph,

The survey is also skewed towards those who want to vote up their favoured sim. And the woke, who don't mind answering nonsensical questions such as "What is your gender". Hahaha.

Edited December 28, 20232 yr by jarmstro

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

."I hope they don't turn you off from bringing your add ons to MSFS some day."

Put a tick on that one for me please. Although, when you do, it will be chalked up as a victory by some. 

Edited December 28, 20232 yr by jarmstro