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davies87

I miss FS9

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On 2/23/2024 at 12:43 PM, prolixindec said:

I found this thread by accident, but I thought I'd chime in. I had FS9 and the Level-D 767, so I know what that buzz is about. But let me say that I think I've found "peak sim" for me now. It has a bit of a FS9 vibe, so maybe you guys will understand.

For "world" visuals (displaying everything that's not in the cockpit), I use MSFS, which is pretty beautiful. But that's networked in to PSX, another stand-alone sim, which supplies aircraft systems, cockpit views, and flight physics. The other sim, PSX, is a down-to-the-circuit-breaker perfect simulation of a 747-400, but the developer didn't go the route of concentrating on virtual cockpits or VR. Instead, you get a 2D panel.

That makes most MSFS users cringe ("the 90s called and they want their 2D panel back") but from an immersion standpoint, it's fine. You can look at the entire cockpit from overhead, to P6 and P7, down to the pedestal, and literally every switch works, including the interphone. It even has CPDLC, SATCOM, and a functioning weather radar with all the switches. You can look at thunderstorms using the tilt and the gain, and the radar displays shadows and turbulence, just like the real 747. You can get refueling reports on paper from the cockpit printer, and send maintenance and scheduling memos over ACARS. While on the ground you can trick the airplane into thinking it's in the air by pulling circuit breakers to fool the air/ground relays. And you can do anything on the FMC that you can do in the real aircraft, including using RTE2. And the TCAS will show live real-world traffic with an add-on. And there's a lively community forum where the principal dev answers questions directly, usually within a few hours. And it's still being updated (some 200 updates since 2014).

Anyway, all of this sounds fantastic, but 99.9999% of people are thrown off by the fact that there's no virtual cockpit. 

Fans of FS9 should get it, when I say that it doesn't really matter. The sim (PSX) is quite perfect for me--even though it came out in 2014. And with MSFS providing the "eye candy" visuals outside the window, this era ia really peak sim for me. 

Thanks for reading, if you made it this far. Sorry for posting this in the FS9 forum... I guess it has nothing to do with FS9, except my solidarity with you guys. 🙂 (Mods can delete if that's appropriate.)

 

What is the sound environment like?  Does it compare to the relatively good PMDG sounds?

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On 2/15/2024 at 5:23 AM, PebbleBeach said:

Dedl, I don't miss it. I was merely snickering at Izzam's post. You know I love it! Wait til David and I release KRNO for FS9 which is finally, and I do mean finally, nearing release.......

Hope your doing well,

Michael

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That looks spectacular!  Has it been released yet?

 

Sean 

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3 hours ago, jackryan said:

That looks spectacular!  Has it been released yet?

 

Sean 

Hi Sean.

We were disappointed with the Control Tower so we chose to get it right. We will announce and publish here when it’s ready. Thank you sir.

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On 2/14/2024 at 12:22 AM, davies87 said:

It felt like a living aviation world. Yes the graphics compared to today is awful but it was my world and was the perfect form of escapism. 

You are very lucky because thanks to Black Square you will get an even better form of escapism. The most realistic form of escapism even possible, ultra-realistic systems, over 100 possible failures. A dream! But is flight simming, and gaming in general really escapism....? hm to be honest I would absolutely hate it to be in any of these survival horror games I like to play in real-life. And I also hate (or to be more precise: FEAR, because of the flaming crashes) flying in real life  ... but maybe it is escapism and not only entertainment. 😉

 

On 2/14/2024 at 12:22 AM, davies87 said:

It feels like now I won't have the time or money to invest a new laptop and create the world again.

I recommend don´t get stuck and glued too much on a simulator that was surpassed by an absolute superior successor by now. You won´t get the Black Square Dukes and the BlueBird Boeing 767 in photorealistic quality and all circuit breakers modeled, and the FlyByWire A380 and so many others for your FSX.

You also won´t get that awesome and very uniqué Dreich atmosphere (like a true Scotsman would say, Americans would say dark gloomy grim) when it is raining and overcast, in FS9 the weather looked better than in FSX which was way too stupid colourful, but in FS2020 you will get the best dark eerie gritty rain and weather and late autumn rainy snowstorm weather possible. It is perfect sitting in the well-heated cockpit during such a weather. Nothing is more hygge than sitting inside a cozy warm cockpit with dreich weather outside.

 

On 2/14/2024 at 12:22 AM, davies87 said:

It feels like now I won't have the time or money to invest a new laptop and create the world again. Hopefully at some point this will change.

Building a new computer is the essence of simming and gaming, and the perfect challenge and the most interesting part like building a simpit. Do you really want to miss out the most exciting part of simming, building your own PC? A true Yedi also builds his own lasersword. Yes it cost a bit, one has to shell out 1000 bucks to fully upgrade or build a real good machine ....let´s assume NVMe, PSU, and other components are getting used again otherwise it will be a bit more expensive.

But compare that to the literally insane food prices, or how much it costs to repair even small stuff in a car, and other daily life expenses. We already make jokes here that it won´t take long until the 100€ coin is made for the small daily grocery shopping and call it "P€sos" and "Lir€" because of the inflation. Computer parts are still rather cheap compared to how problematic daily expenses have become during the last few years. So getting 1000 bucks ready every 6 years when a new console generation arrives and a new good computer will come in handy should be easy manageable for everyone, even for the poor who just manage to save a few bucks every month. Try to get into the perfect Flight Simulator 2024 spirit and mindset, imagine your own custom casemod PC, intense! You will never buy a laptop again.

You need to get in the perfect mindset and perfect mood. You must tell yourself "I am so happy that BlueBird will release it´s outstanding 757 for Flight Simulator 2024. I will build ... no ... CREATE my own superior casemod supercomputer machine for this, with 14GB/second NVMe drives and a graphics card so thicc it will fill five slots." at least once a day. And in summer before FS2024 release you will let go of FS9 and internet-shop the most beautyful computer towers and gorgeous hardware for the brandnew sim.

 

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Well, there are some of us (quite a few, actually) who still use FS9 as their primary Platform. Those of us on fixed Incomes who cannot afford the expenditure of a new Computer. Those who don't have the fastest Internet service or have a Usage plan that cannot afford having to stay online 24/7 in order for newer Platforms just to run properly or receive Updates. Or, those who have amassed such a collection of Add Ons and have crafted their Sim World with such care and love that they don't see the need to Upgrade.

I still firmly believe that for a new User who has had no prior experience with FlightSim and is looking to 'test the water' and see if it's something they want to do, then FS9 is ideal. With minor tweaks to their OS, FS9 will run smoothly on just about anything out there, whether it's a new or older Computer. If they decide they want tons of AI or more complex Payware Add Ons then they can decide to move to a more capable or suitable Platform. Yes, it's over 20 years old, but... So What?

There. I said my piece, and yes, I'm sticking with it.

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Posted (edited)

And those are the best 'Words of Wisdom' so far...

There is no Holy Grail of simming out there. FS9 with all it's add-ons, both unique & otherwise, is probably the most immersive sim out there, maybe not the most realistic, but as the late & very much missed add-on designer, Garry Smith, always said..

"Simming is all about Fun, Facts & Fiction!!'

Like ViperPilot, I really respect & support the freeware developers, the backbone of our hobby.

Edited by Wobbie
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Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Posted (edited)

@JetCat,

You know why retro gaming is so popular? Because people have come to the realization new does not mean better or more enjoyable.
I have nothing stopping me from using MSFS other than I don't like it over FS9.
There is more to enjoyment than graphics.

The biggest plus is no new bugs and no continual updates fixing them.
I can't imagine anything worse than sitting down to fly and you are told no because first you have to download gigabytes of data and install it.
This is STILL the state of affairs right? No game is worth that. Some of us have a life and time is limited.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot
Long quoted post removed
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Mark Daniels

 

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Indeed, I so agree with Ray..

And our 20 year old sim is STILL getting add-ons. Just goes to show how popular it still is.

Not forgetting that it will run, with very good results on almost anything.

No continual updates (FS2004 had 1 update (I think), no fancy PC's needed, no time wasted in trying to download updates, no time wasted in complaining about those updates, and very important for a lot of us, the cost of the PC needed to get the thing running perfectly.

 

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Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Posted (edited)

And I heard the same kind of talk over a Decade ago, when nary an hour went by as someone was posting the Rig they were going to build for FSX; Water Cooling, Overclocking the CPU to levels that both Intel and AMD cringed at, buying the 'latest and greatest' Graphics Card... and singing the same lament over and over again; I can't get [whatever] FPS when I fly the [insert expensive Payware jetliner] at [insert very expensive Payware Airport]... sound familiar?

Look, I get it. 2020/2024 is the new Sim. Everyone's wowed by what it offers, but like any Consumer product everyone doesn't get exactly what they want. Someone's always gonna have a beef. At the same time, everyone out there doesn't have the bank, time or patience to spend hours on the Internet doing comparison shopping let alone going to a 'computer store'. Do they even exist anymore?

My previous Comment stands with one addition; some 2020 users bemoan the lack of a 2D Panel. TBH, for me there are times when the 2D Panel gets in my way because when panning the VC Views obstruct my view. I use a Minipanel compiled by Bill McClellan with Glass gauges, all the features Ill ever need, and I can pan around with unobstructed  360° views.

Edited by ViperPilot

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I would actually love to try FS9 again since I have great memories of it, especially the new (then) weather theme engine and the classic aircraft. I wish I had not sold my copy when FSX came out if only so I could occassionally indulge in it. More so, I no longer have the excellent Richard Goldstein scenery that absolutely blew me away 20 years ago (and I am still in admiration of since one could argue it set the tone for all the high end scenery that has come our way ever since). But sometimes as the saying goes, the past is best left behind. I suspect I would be very disappointed now given I am so used to vastly better graphics and sophisticated add-ons if nothing else. I also remember one good reason why I stuck with FSX and left FS9 behind - the scenery loading on the additional cores really made a difference in my case, all but eliminating any performance drops as I approached an airport. That said, it probably wouldn't matter on today's hardware that it only runs on one core!!

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5 hours ago, JonP01 said:

 I also remember one good reason why I stuck with FSX and left FS9 behind - the scenery loading on the additional cores really made a difference in my case, all but eliminating any performance drops as I approached an airport. That said, it probably wouldn't matter on today's hardware that it only runs on one core!!

Think you are a little confused. They are both single core games and you will get far worse performance in FSX than you will in FS9.

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Mark Daniels

 

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Posted (edited)

2nd that, Mark. When I still had my i5 laptop, FSX ran like a dog, so I stayed with FS9.

Edited by Wobbie

Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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4 hours ago, Skywatcher said:

Think you are a little confused. They are both single core games and you will get far worse performance in FSX than you will in FS9.

No, after using FSX for 18 years and FS9 for 3 years before that I am not confused. You did, however, fail to read my post properly where I pointed out that it was the scenery pre-loading occuring on the additional cores. And my experience is as I stated - FSX was able to maintain better performance than FS9 because that scenery loading was handled by cores other than the main one handling the main game thread.

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Well, as I said before, I was running both FS9 & FSX on the same PC (i5, 8GB ram).

Overall, FSX was laggy & very slow loading up & running, so I dumped it.

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Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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