Pilot 2 ATC vs. Beyond ATC vs. Say Intentions...

[Fiorentoni 4,257]

49 minutes ago, CaptainMoose said:

What would really be great is if vatsim gets into an arrangement with SayIntentions ai and integrate their systems so all unmanned airspaces on vatsim are covered by SayIntensions ai while remaining on the vatsim network.  So vatsim controllers will always pass you to the next station even if its unmanned and that's where SayIntentions ai picks you up, and visa versa when entering from unmanned to manned vatsim controlled airspace. 

Imagine getting the best of two worlds, the great vatsim manned airspaces (Boston, Gatwick, Schiphol...etc.) and SayIntentions ai everywhere else vatsim controllers are not online, you never have to unnecessarily switch to unicom anymore.

I hope this happens this year or the next, one can only hope!

So Vatsim requires each user to have a 30 dollar per month subscription for a replacement ATC? Or how is this going to work?
How is Vatsim going to know if you have an SI subscription or not? Will they ask you before assigning you a new frequency every time? How do you coordinate with other aircraft if you're on an SI frequency and they are on Unicom?

[CaptainMoose 6]

Good point, maybe not SayIntentions ai then.  I hope with time good atc ai algorithms will be built by smart people as opensource similar if not better than SayIntentions ai.  

11 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

How do you coordinate with other aircraft if you're on an SI frequency and they are on Unicom?

If such an opensource ai is integrated by vatsim, everyone in the same unmanned airspace would be connected to the ai vatsim system, just like how they are now on unicom.

Edited April 8 by CaptainMoose

[Malaromane 424]

Easyjetsimpilot posted a video where he started a flight on VATSIM and then transitioned in mid-flight to BeyondATC.

It's not quite as seamless as people want but it would certainly be good enough for me. I've not tried this yet on SayIntentions but I suspect it might work.

[kevinfirth 1,403]

On 3/13/2024 at 5:45 AM, Jure said:

. And VoxATC, but as mmcmah wrote, they are very quiet. 

Quiet yes, but VoxATC is developing at pace.  It won't be showcased until it's primetime ready. We don't do hype and generating expectations we can't deliver...  

[Farlis 2,289]

2 hours ago, Malaromane said:

 then transitioned in mid-flight to BeyondATC.

That took way too long. What I would like is basically a way to have that switch integrated in the program itself. So that it pauses itself whenever it detects an active VATSIM station and then picks up again when you go back to unmanned stations and would be on unicom.

Or a simple pause button, so that it doesn't have to run through the complete initialization process again.

[techman 153]

It´s somehow frustrating to see that we have a couple of products coming out the next months or already being in beta and none of them is able to provide the "solution" that all of the IFR-Airline-Pilots are looking for. For me the solution that is able to provide controlled AI-Traffic with realistic behaviour on the airfield, including departures/SIDs, approaches/STARs and "reacting" to the current traffic situation (shortcuts, no long approaches etc.) is the one that will make it.

We have BATC not released yet, it will come without traffic, its a railed/boxed solution like FSHud and we don´t have any AI involved in ATC/controlled traffic. Price tag varies.

We have FSHUD in beta where still is a lot of work to be done, it has traffic though and looks promising. No AI anywhere, a totally scripted solution.

We have SayIntentions which is still in development, it has integration of Navigraph data but also in beta, no traffic. AI included, price tag (too?) high for the moment.

We have VoxATC where I have no idea what the status is. 

But: We don´t have a "working" product yet. Let´s see what the future brings, at the end of the day one of them has to deliver. 

 

[Brocky120 64]

6 minutes ago, techman said:

It´s somehow frustrating to see that we have a couple of products coming out the next months or already being in beta and none of them is able to provide the "solution" that all of the IFR-Airline-Pilots are looking for. For me the solution that is able to provide controlled AI-Traffic with realistic behaviour on the airfield, including departures/SIDs, approaches/STARs and "reacting" to the current traffic situation (shortcuts, no long approaches etc.) is the one that will make it.

We have BATC not released yet, it will come without traffic, its a railed/boxed solution like FSHud and we don´t have any AI involved in ATC/controlled traffic. Price tag varies.

We have FSHUD in beta where still is a lot of work to be done, it has traffic though and looks promising. No AI anywhere, a totally scripted solution.

We have SayIntentions which is still in development, it has integration of Navigraph data but also in beta, no traffic. AI included, price tag (too?) high for the moment.

We have VoxATC where I have no idea what the status is. 

But: We don´t have a "working" product yet. Let´s see what the future brings, at the end of the day one of them has to deliver. 

 

Thats because it's a ridiculously difficult task to do and get right.

[Tierborn 188]

On 3/13/2024 at 4:13 AM, RALF9636 said:

I thought Sayintentions does not control traffic at all? As far as I understood Sayintentions only talks to the user but does not control the AI traffic. Did I miss something?

AFAIK FSHud is the only available app that controls the AI traffic. VoxATC and BATC are expected to do so on release but they are not available yet.

 

I believe you are correct, Sayintentions does not control AI traffic.

[Gazzareth 810]

17 minutes ago, techman said:

 

But: We don´t have a "working" product yet. Let´s see what the future brings, at the end of the day one of them has to deliver. 

 

Unfortunately not, ultimately odds are it will be a case of choosing what compromises you are prepared to accept.

I would be extremely surprised if there is ever one ATC addon to rule them all. There's more chance of MS getting their act together in that respect....

G

[Danno 192]

18 minutes ago, Gazzareth said:

There's more chance of MS getting their act together

If MSFS2024 doesn’t have vastly improved ATC, it’ll be a slap to every simmer. It does not need to be at the same level as BATC or SI but it does need to address some of the current failings. Porting over the current mess, IMO, says “we just don’t care”. 

Edited April 10 by Danno
Typo

[kevinfirth 1,403]

46 minutes ago, techman said:

We have VoxATC where I have no idea what the status is. 

Vox will provide exactly what you have asked for. 

Vox will provide a full SATCE (Simulated Air Traffic Control Environment).   It will integrate IFR and VFR control concurrently, so you will be able to use it as an IFR flight and see/hear controlled AI VFR traffic sometimes in the circuit, or for a VFR flight, having to contend with controlled AI IFR arrivals and departures at the same time 🙂 (depending on the airfield ofc)

There are some very advanced realistic features in relation to AI traffic control being tested and developed that I am not at liberty to disclose yet 😉

[kevinfirth 1,403]

53 minutes ago, techman said:

But: We don´t have a "working" product yet. Let´s see what the future brings, at the end of the day one of them has to deliver. 

There's a reason for this, its an incredibly difficult and complex area to work with, especially given some of the sim limitations.  Developing a SATCE is tough if you want it to be realistic in any way, because the real thing is highly regimented in every respect, for obvious reasons!  

[jcomm 5,945]

5 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Vox will provide exactly what you have asked for. 

Vox will provide a full SATCE (Simulated Air Traffic Control Environment).   It will integrate IFR and VFR control concurrently, so you will be able to use it as an IFR flight and see/hear controlled AI VFR traffic sometimes in the circuit, or for a VFR flight, having to contend with controlled AI IFR arrivals and departures at the same time 🙂 (depending on the airfield ofc)

There are some very advanced realistic features in relation to AI traffic control being tested and developed that I am not at liberty to disclose yet 😉

Is there a demo version?

 

[kevinfirth 1,403]

14 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Is there a demo version?

No, when it's nearly ready we will provide some more information and teasers... 🙂

[Gazzareth 810]

14 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Is there a demo version?

 

It's not out yet, interesting video showing It's state as a couple of months ago. Definitely work needed on injection, taxiing aircraft appear to have intoxicated pilots & pretty sure that Shamrock should have gone around, because it looked way high.... but as the video said it is WIP..

 

 

G