17 hours ago, tup61 said:

P2ATC with its 'ridiculously long manual')
 

Yes, fairly long and extensive of a manual but actually very simple and easy to follow. I just used some online videos to get me started. But seeing how feature rich the program is.....the manual is there for all of the extras.

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Have you used SayIntentions?  As others have said, the beta is progressing quickly, but its already useable.  I like Vatsim (I used to be Satuk London Chief before it became Vatsim).  The big drawback of course are dead frequencies much of the time.

this doesnt even control AI traffic so im trying to figure out how "dead frequencies" on vatsim is a selling point. If I want to hear fake traffic calls I can tune live atc and play it in the background for FREE. having canned responses that dont care about what aircraft are actually doing nor vectoring me around said traffic isnt what I would pay anything for personally. Different strokes for different folks but Why would anyone pay 30 dollars a month for that especially if you mainly fly Airliners is beyond me. 

Edited March 14, 20242 yr by environmental_ice

Because you have to start somewhere?

Because a business might not have the funding to develop a complete product before they launch, and therefore needs to take willing guinea pigs along for the ride?

Because AI generated responses and voice generation are expensive, but getting cheaper over time?

Because some people want to fly, experiencing the challenge of interacting with voice ATC, on any route they please?

Because the product is developing very quickly, and paying customers know that the features they want (such as injected AI aircraft) will arrive in the near future —Q2 release hinted — and are willing to provide feedback and support to make that happen?

 

7 hours ago, abranpuko said:

So Sayintentions:

-does not inject ai traffic

-does not control ai traffic 

Not yet, but it's being worked on. I believe they have a working proof-of-concept.

11 hours ago, RobJC said:

ATC is one of the most complex aspects of flight sims, and it is very hard to get right. I will just wait and see how these tools pan out but I think it will take a long time to approach the quality and depth of tools like P2ATC. But maybe I am wrong? Only time will tell. 

You are very right when it comes to 'complex', 'hard to get right' and 'wait and see'. Not sure if it will take a long time to approach the quality and depth of P2ATC because I don't know P2ATC well enough to judge that (only from video's) but I do know it will take a long time to approach ANY quality and depth for ANY ATC addon. So as I said earlier: don't go waiting for BATC. It won't be released anytime soon. And if it will live up to the expectations is really unsure. If you want an ATC solution this year spend the money on something you can get right now. Or wait for MSFS 2024 and see (plus hope and pray) if that version also contains some ATC improvements.

Edited March 14, 20242 yr by tup61

I think with an AI having a complete situational awareness is the most promising approach to a good ATC solution. Sadly it´s expensive at the moment.

21 hours ago, RobJC said:

ATC is one of the most complex aspects of flight sims, and it is very hard to get right. I will just wait and see how these tools pan out but I think it will take a long time to approach the quality and depth of tools like P2ATC. But maybe I am wrong? Only time will tell. 

I don't think you're wrong at all. Pilot2ATC's focus is ATC. If anyone does have pilot2atc they'd notice how robust it's features are regarding ATC. I am not sure what the obsession of the ATC controlling the traffic but for me (I know I know my opinion) my focus is on flying in the simulator.  Though I'd consider that a nice to have option. I don't have time to wait if there is a vatsim controller available, I don't want to pay 30 dollars more a month to fly in a stinking simulator. Just get me up in the air and enjoy the hobby. AIG and FSLTL traffic can make pretty planes around me and the ATC program (p2atc) can give me a flight following, or IFR, change my cruise level, show me everything in the maps section all the while not vectoring me into a mountain. Just like how all of pretend to be pilots, we can pretend the ATC program is vectoring them to final. 😀

Only issue is that it's a lot better with aftermarket voices and ATC chatter. Thankfully, ATC chatter is easily incorporated into the program based on what type of channel you're on and location in the world. Yes, it does that.

Edited March 14, 20242 yr by Sonosusto

31 minutes ago, Sonosusto said:

I am not sure what the obsession of the ATC controlling the traffic

I think it's because that's what ATC is supposed to do: control traffic. Don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

23 hours ago, jkeye said:

Is X-plane supported and usable with Sayintentions?

I thought support had been pulled offically

Couldn't tell you. I was replying to someone who said they miss Radar Contact ATC...

 

Russ

On 3/13/2024 at 5:10 PM, MrBitstFlyer said:

I have been using it for a week and consider it a massive step forward in ATC.  You can ask anything and get a human like response.  It is in Beta, but after just testing the demo for 24 hours, I'm sold.

For me, a subscription is fine considering the back end costs that using AI generates.

How is SI using VFR in the UK?

(Assuming being a Leicester lad, you fly in the UK, at least sometimes? 👍). 

3 hours ago, Sonosusto said:

I don't think you're wrong at all. Pilot2ATC's focus is ATC. If anyone does have pilot2atc they'd notice how robust it's features are regarding ATC. I am not sure what the obsession of the ATC controlling the traffic but for me (I know I know my opinion) my focus is on flying in the simulator.  Though I'd consider that a nice to have option. I don't have time to wait if there is a vatsim controller available, I don't want to pay 30 dollars more a month to fly in a stinking simulator. Just get me up in the air and enjoy the hobby. AIG and FSLTL traffic can make pretty planes around me and the ATC program (p2atc) can give me a flight following, or IFR, change my cruise level, show me everything in the maps section all the while not vectoring me into a mountain. Just like how all of pretend to be pilots, we can pretend the ATC program is vectoring them to final. 😀

Only issue is that it's a lot better with aftermarket voices and ATC chatter. Thankfully, ATC chatter is easily incorporated into the program based on what type of channel you're on and location in the world. Yes, it does that.

I tried the Pilot 2ATC demo a couple of years ago, and found it overly complicated. It also used what I thought was way too much  processing power. Program I have used for years uses almost nothing. The ATC chatter is just recorded ATC snippets, which I have had for a year or  two,, and rarely  use now. Has nothing to do with the flight I am on. ATC I use talks to the AI aircraft around me. 

 

Edited March 14, 20242 yr by Bobsk8

3 hours ago, Sonosusto said:

I don't think you're wrong at all. Pilot2ATC's focus is ATC. If anyone does have pilot2atc they'd notice how robust it's features are regarding ATC. I am not sure what the obsession of the ATC controlling the traffic but for me (I know I know my opinion) my focus is on flying in the simulator.  Though I'd consider that a nice to have option. I don't have time to wait if there is a vatsim controller available, I don't want to pay 30 dollars more a month to fly in a stinking simulator. Just get me up in the air and enjoy the hobby. AIG and FSLTL traffic can make pretty planes around me and the ATC program (p2atc) can give me a flight following, or IFR, change my cruise level, show me everything in the maps section all the while not vectoring me into a mountain. Just like how all of pretend to be pilots, we can pretend the ATC program is vectoring them to final. 😀

Only issue is that it's a lot better with aftermarket voices and ATC chatter. Thankfully, ATC chatter is easily incorporated into the program based on what type of channel you're on and location in the world. Yes, it does that.

All good points. I don’t need or want my ATC program also managing AI traffic. It has been years since MSFS was released and we still do not have a high quality AI traffic program. FSLTL is pretty good but far from perfect. ATC is complex enough. And so is AI traffic. Keep them separate. Besides, P2ATC is aware of AI traffic and provides alerts. It just doesn’t control them. Good enough for me. 

Edited March 14, 20242 yr by RobJC

1 hour ago, RobJC said:

All good points. I don’t need or want my ATC program also managing AI traffic. It has been years since MSFS was released and we still do not have a high quality AI traffic program. FSLTL is pretty good but far from perfect. ATC is complex enough. And so is AI traffic. Keep them separate. Besides, P2ATC is aware of AI traffic and provides alerts. It just doesn’t control them. Good enough for me. 

Yup. And I think the program keeps improving. Talking to surrounding traffic would be good.

4 hours ago, tup61 said:

I think it's because that's what ATC is supposed to do: control traffic. Don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

Yeah, in real life aviation. Yes, of course. There's nothing about this we don't understand.

It's your sim and whatever keeps you happy, keeps you happy.

The OP had questions regarding the competition of ATC programs, hence the comments. Not sure what so hard to understand about this?

 

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

I tried the Pilot 2ATC demo a couple of years ago, and found it overly complicated. It also used what I thought was way too much  processing power. Program I have used for years uses almost nothing. The ATC chatter is just recorded ATC snippets, which I have had for a year or  two,, and rarely  use now. Has nothing to do with the flight I am on. ATC I use talks to the AI aircraft around me. 

It can be, yes. However, a few short YT videos can get you up and running without a whole lot of fuss. Processing power? I have fairly outdated CPU/CPU etc and have very little difference. Hardly a blip.

Edited March 14, 20242 yr by Sonosusto

12 hours ago, JYW said:

How is SI using VFR in the UK?

(Assuming being a Leicester lad, you fly in the UK, at least sometimes? 👍). 

Not tried in the UK yet 🤭

On 3/13/2024 at 1:44 PM, JYW said:

1). It's not released yet, so cannot be "the best option bar none".

2). Are you reading Tup61's posts in here?  An actual beta tester on BATC who is using the beta. He's certainly not being negative about it, but he's telling us how it is at this time.  You said BATC will argue with you.  He (who is using it) said that it will not argue with you.  Your enthusiasm is nice but you're discussing BATC as though it's already out there and a lot of what you're saying conflicts with what Tup61 (again who is using the beta) is reporting.

It seems clear to me that not many seem to aware of all the facts regarding BATC, it was clearly stated by a few people that BATC does not use AI which is completely false, there is even a video available showing the AI in action, and to be clear as a beta tester myself I'm more than aware that even the beta testers are not in posession of all the facts!

Captain — 12/03/2024 22:05
We've implemented our custom user database, which allows crowed-sourced information to come in from our community that can determine all sorts of things for regional procedure, such as which runways to use in specific wind conditions, etc.

This also allows us to override the method the AI chooses to pronounce words and phrases, such as the names of SIDs and STARs, as well as how to pronounce airports and other proper names.

Here's a quick video showing this off, first without the use of the database and then with the database. Pay attention to how it pronounces the airport name and the transition.

https://youtu.be/7SxL6Xn5948