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Pilot 2 ATC vs. Beyond ATC vs. Say Intentions...

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5 hours ago, techman said:

BeyondATC will "only" user AI for the voices

BATC has it's own custom software for managing the AI traffic, it won't be using the MSFS AI traffic

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My experience:

- P2ATC: I used it in P3D and MSFS. Great program, but it seems to use default Windows voice recognition only, and that just does not understand me. Believe me, I tried to train voice recognition properly. My wife had a good laugh when I repeated the same silly sentence over and over again for 10 minutes, and Windows still didn't get it. I stopped using P2ATC for this reason only. I wish the developer would look into web-based voice recognition (Microsoft or Google work fine for me).

- VoxATC: I used in in FSX and P3D. It was my favourite ATC program if it worked. Most of the time, though, it just crashed with a "critical error" message or similar. I tried to reach the developer for help (he had a few sentences about that error on the web page, but they didn't help me to resolve the issue) but never got a response. Due to lack of customer support, I won't buy VoxATC for MSFS unless other users will report that this has improved.

- RadarContact: some others here love it, but I only used it a few times in P3D. It just doesn't do much. What it does is correct, but it felt empty and very scripted to me.

- FSHud: Feels very scripted to me, just like RadarContact. In addition, I very often run into issues during flights. Took the wrong turn on a taxiway? Nothing you can do but stop FSHud. Want to go direct to another waypoint? No way. It is so inflexible that I stopped using it. In P2ATC, you can change your flight details ay any point.

- Vatsim: Great option if ATC is available. I haven't tried IVAO, but I guess it is similar.

- PilotEdge: Probably the best ATC service, delivered by real ATC controllers. However, it is expensive and limited to the Western part of the US. 

Now to the two I didn't try yet, but followed with interest:

- SayIntentions: AI based and as expensive as PilotEdge. The only advantage I see over PE seems to be that it spans the entire US. I personally would chose PE. They are working on covering the entire world, that would distinguish them more from PilotEdge.

- BeyondATC: Really looking forward to it, it could be the solution to my voice recognition issues with P2ATC.

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58 minutes ago, guenseli said:

Doesn't sound very optiistic?

Or is it still in a very, very basic stage?

Well, the current beta mainly is about getting the pilot from A to Z using IFR procedures without any interfering traffic so I simply really can't say anything about the rest of what is planned. I have no idea what the state of all that is. I do have my opinions but since this is a beta I don't think it's fair to share them (even though the NDA allows you to talk about it freely: only pictures and video's need approvement).
Some are hoping for an imminent release or perhaps in Q2 but I think it needs a lot more time than that.

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23 minutes ago, qqwertz said:

- BeyondATC: Really looking forward to it, it could be the solution to my voice recognition issues with P2ATC.

That's one thing that should work well indeed thanks to AI. No need to train BATC at ALL!!! There isn't even an option to train it. 😉 Plug in the mic and talk, done.

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1 hour ago, Lucky38i said:

BATC has it's own custom software for managing the AI traffic, it won't be using the MSFS AI traffic

I think there is a misunderstanding going on here regarding the use of the term "AI".

Some use it refering to AI traffic in the sense of AIG, FSLTL etc.

Others use it refering to how an app works in the sense of ChatGPT, machine learning etc.

So people seem to be talking past each other here sometimes.

 

BATC announced it will control AI traffic but it won't use AI technology (except for the voices). So the ATC phraseology is scripted.

SayIntentions does not control AI traffic but it uses AI technology for the communication with the user. So it is like talking to some kind of ChatGPT.

At least that's how I understood it.

 

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2 hours ago, guenseli said:

Or is it still in a very, very basic stage?

 

54 minutes ago, tup61 said:

Well, the current beta mainly is about getting the pilot from A to Z using IFR procedures without any interfering traffic so I simply really can't say anything about the rest of what is planned. I have no idea what the state of all that is. I do have my opinions but since this is a beta I don't think it's fair to share them (even though the NDA allows you to talk about it freely: only pictures and video's need approvement).
Some are hoping for an imminent release or perhaps in Q2 but I think it needs a lot more time than that.

 

Looking at their latest video where they explain lengthy how vectoring is supposed to work - a feature that other ATC addons like PF3 have optimized already 10+ years ago - I have a feeling that they still have a very long way to go.

 

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1 hour ago, qqwertz said:

- FSHud: Feels very scripted to me, just like RadarContact. In addition, I very often run into issues during flights. Took the wrong turn on a taxiway? Nothing you can do but stop FSHud. Want to go direct to another waypoint? No way. It is so inflexible that I stopped using it. 

When did you last use it? This has been improved some time ago. FSHud catches up with you even if you take a different taxi routing or skip waypoints in flight. At least that is my experience - I haven't had these issues for a long time.

 

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Captain — Today at 00:00
@everyone Let's take a little break from the standard fare of flights and talking about pricing models and do a little developer deep dive into how we solve the complex topic of vectoring within BeyondATC!

This video is a bit math-y and technical, so if that isn't your thing, feel free to skip this one. We'll be back to flying and showing the program in action soon enough.

However, if you are interested in some of the inner workings of developing an ATC tool, dust off your high school linear algebra books and join us for a glimpse into the world of vectors!

https://youtu.be/FVYukUNUujQ


AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 4.2 32 gig ram, Nvidia RTX3060 12 gig, Intel 760 SSD M2 NVMe 512 gig, M2NVMe 1Tbt (OS) M2NVMe 2Tbt (MSFS) Crucial MX500 SSD (Backup OS). VR Oculus Quest 2

YouTube:- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC96wsF3D_h5GzNNJnuDH3WQ   ProATC/SR and BATC FB Group:- https://www.facebook.com/groups/1571953959750565

Flight Simulator First Officer User Group:- https://www.facebook.com/groups/564880128522788 ProATC/SR and Flight Sim First Officer (FSFO) Beta tester

Reality Is For People Who Can't Handle Simulation!

 

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1 hour ago, Lucky38i said:

BATC has it's own custom software for managing the AI traffic, it won't be using the MSFS AI traffic

I meant real AI, not AI-Traffic and Stuff. BATC managed to throw out some marketing buzzwords, but after some reading and some analyzing the only "real" AI-Based ATC is Sayintentions. They send everything to their server and the AI is aware of the situations in your MSFS-instance and guides you through it. 

BATC ATC is on your machine, maybe scripted, but the only external AI they use is voice recognition and ATC-Voices.

(Based on my own checks - if anyone wants to correct me, no problem at all).



 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, techman said:

I meant real AI, not AI-Traffic and Stuff. BATC managed to throw out some marketing buzzwords, but after some reading and some analyzing the only "real" AI-Based ATC is Sayintentions. They send everything to their server and the AI is aware of the situations in your MSFS-instance and guides you through it. 

BATC ATC is on your machine, maybe scripted, but the only external AI they use is voice recognition and ATC-Voices.

(Based on my own checks - if anyone wants to correct me, no problem at all).



 

I suggest you read all the information on BATC, their AI will even argue with you depending on your replies! And yes, the base program is on your PC but the AI generated voices are on an AI server, hence all the worry over costs (which BATC have now resolved making it the best option bar none)

Edited by SierraHotel

AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 4.2 32 gig ram, Nvidia RTX3060 12 gig, Intel 760 SSD M2 NVMe 512 gig, M2NVMe 1Tbt (OS) M2NVMe 2Tbt (MSFS) Crucial MX500 SSD (Backup OS). VR Oculus Quest 2

YouTube:- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC96wsF3D_h5GzNNJnuDH3WQ   ProATC/SR and BATC FB Group:- https://www.facebook.com/groups/1571953959750565

Flight Simulator First Officer User Group:- https://www.facebook.com/groups/564880128522788 ProATC/SR and Flight Sim First Officer (FSFO) Beta tester

Reality Is For People Who Can't Handle Simulation!

 

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It strikes me that the ideal solution would be an amalgamation of beyond ATC and say intentions.

The vectoring etc in BATC looks promising however the weak point for me is the voice.

The ATC voices used in BATC sound too dramatic and although they’re saying the correct things , it just doesn’t sound like the way ATC actually speaks. They would sound fine in a dramatic sequence in a space game like “ we’ve got a hull breach in sector 4 !”  but they don’t sound right in something less dramatic like “ taxi and hold short  28L via alpha and foxtrot “

I’m sure in future something might be done, but as I understand it the voices are 3rd party.

SI ATC have just about nailed their ATC speech and it sounds pretty much exactly how it sounds on the radio in real life, in the US at least. The English accented controllers don’t quite sound as good.

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787 captain.  

Previously 24 years on 747-400.Technical advisor on PMDG 747 legacy versions QOTS 1 , FS9 and Aerowinx PS1. 

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Interesting thread - beyond all these premature praise and price discussions - and thanks for opening it.

So let the legendary „upper class“ software products beeing finished and we will see if they deserve the superlatives they publish.

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35 minutes ago, SierraHotel said:

I suggest you read all the information on BATC, their AI will even argue with you depending on your replies! And yes, the base program is on your PC but the AI generated voices are on an AI server, hence all the worry over costs (which BATC have now resolved making it the best option bar none)

Don´t call it AI.

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Posted (edited)

  

42 minutes ago, jon b said:

in the US at least

Why the heck is everything in flight sim land so focused on the US... So annoying.

Edited by tup61
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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, SierraHotel said:

I suggest you read all the information on BATC, their AI will even argue with you depending on your replies! And yes, the base program is on your PC but the AI generated voices are on an AI server, hence all the worry over costs (which BATC have now resolved making it the best option bar none)

BATC replies are based on scripts. AI is only used for the voice generation. It's nothing like SI. There is no arguing going in in BATC.

Edited by tup61
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