8 hours ago, LHookins said:

Lowered birth rates and lack of mating eventually capped the population at about 2200, where it started to decline.

This seems to be a programmed response to overcrowding.  That is, once the population gets to a certain point, the females no longer wish to mate, which naturally stops population growth.  The young males may become violent.because they can no longer mate with the females.

The homosexuality could also be another form of programmed population control.

I say "programmed" because animals don't think like humans and tend to simply react to stimuli.  It's not like they are consciously deciding to behave a certain way because they have thought about the pros, cons and consequences like most humans do.  Humans also have programmed responses, but we can be aware of them and control them to some extent.

I hope that we can overcome our primitive instincts and actually recognize our problems and try to resolve them peacefully and rationally.

Dave

26 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I hope that we can overcome our primitive instincts and actually recognize our problems and try to resolve them peacefully and rationally.

I hope so: I read about behavioral sink (the concept that was introduced because of the Mouse Utopia @LHookins mentioned) and, sincerely, things look eerily similar to what is going on now.

However, all I read were reports of reports about these studies' results. I'll have to look for the actual reports (either papers or books by Calhoun, the main researcher).

Edited May 14, 20242 yr by Luis Hernandez

1 hour ago, Luis Hernandez said:

However, all I read were reports of reports about these studies' results. I'll have to look for the actual reports (either papers or books by Calhoun, the main researcher).

Please let us know what you find.  

 

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

The homosexuality could also be another form of programmed population control.

There is a theory that pregnant mothers undergoing a lot of stress have a higher likelihood of having homosexual offspring.  The mommy mice would certainly have been under considerable stress.  

There is another factor involved.  If you thoroughly convince young people that the sea level will rise 20 feet in the next 5 years (or 50 years, does it really matter?) resulting in the end of civilization as we know it, it has a certain chilling effect.  They become discouraged.  At that point, does anything matter?  I first encountered this many years ago chatting with a young person in the Sims community. 

The ColdFusion channel on YouTube just published a video about Japan which some may find interesting and maybe pertinent to this discussion.  It does not mention mice.  China has a similar problem with young people simply giving up and dropping out.

Hook

 

3 hours ago, LHookins said:

Please let us know what you find.  

So far, I've got this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1644264/pdf/procrsmed00338-0007.pdf 
https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/22514/1/2308Ramadams.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1501789/pdf/califmed00143-0080.pdf

I'm sure there is more.

Edited May 14, 20242 yr by Luis Hernandez

I think it is economic. Having children and raising them is too darn expensive. It takes a much higher percentage of the family budget than it used to.

For a few thousand years 90% of the population were farmers. They only were able to produce enough to feed themselves and the 10% in the cities. Children were the cheapest labor. There wasn't any labor saving farm machinery except horses, plows, etc. They had sheep and chickens.

I know a family (they live off the grid) who had a few children. Then waited about 15 years and had a few more. The idea was the kids were to be farm hands and maids for the parents who lived in a very big and tall ranch house. They had no electricity. They did have a tractor and a car and a large fancy wood kitchen stove. They never hired anyone, the kids did the work. 80 acres.

In modern times, kids are an expense not an asset financially.

On 5/13/2024 at 10:14 PM, Fielder said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/ar-BB1mhbxT

Quote

Sometime soon, the global fertility rate will drop below the point needed to keep population constant.

Good news then.

Quote

Some demographers think the world’s population could start within four decades

Erm, I think the writer will find the Earth's human population started several million years ago.😁 Unless there is a word missing of course.😊

I think it's just a demographic rebound after the population has been increasing in recent years. It probably needs to decrease now. Moreover, from history, we've learned that evolution solves some problems but uncovers others, so we don't get bored, probably :))

Living in Britain I was able to watch 3 episodes of Michael Palin in Nigeria on Channel 5.

He mentioned the birth rate which is gigantic and will make Nigeria the most populous country in Africa within a few decades.

But it’s not just the population rise but the conditions they’re living in. If you’re able to watch this series it will open your eyes and make your jaw drop.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

He mentioned the birth rate which is gigantic

Here is a list of fertility rates for all countries and regions. I think the highest fertility rates are offset to some extent by higher mortality rates:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate 

47 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

Here is a list of fertility rates for all countries and regions. I think the highest fertility rates are offset to some extent by higher mortality rates:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate 

Probably just as well.

2 hours ago, dmwalker said:

I think the highest fertility rates are offset to some extent by higher mortality rates:

And that generally works in nature. Creatures which are vulnerable to predation or varying food levels tend to have lots of young. Unfortunately, humans have messed things up a) by upsetting the balance of nature and b) developing the means to decrease their own (human) mortality rates without having the collective sense to match that by voluntarily reducing their rate of reproduction accordingly.

I blame aliens. Obesity kills. For some odd reason they want us to all be fat. And so they buy advertising time for junk food quick restaurants.

1 hour ago, Fielder said:

I blame aliens. Obesity kills. For some odd reason they want us to all be fat. And so they buy advertising time for junk food quick restaurants.

 

Eureka! Now I see why 😟

Edited May 17, 20242 yr by Fielder