24 minutes ago, Noel said:

Sure, and my question has always been:  how much of the optimization to make MSFS perform on Xbox S has adversely influenced what those with top end hardware can get out of the sim.  Shouldn't a slider be able to FULLY overcome what was done in the dumbing down, such that there is absolutely no downside to optimizing for low end hardware?  

This is a good point.🍺 The sim should be more scaleable with the sliders.

1 hour ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Sorry but is not is the the VR section. Try the other forum where it was indedned.

Why did you ask the question here in the first place?🤪  It would appear you need to go to the VR forum.  Either you're trolling or the elevator isn't going to the top floor...🤔

43 minutes ago, Noel said:

Sure, and my question has always been:  how much of the optimization to make MSFS perform on Xbox S has adversely influenced what those with top end hardware can get out of the sim.  Shouldn't a slider be able to FULLY overcome what was done in the dumbing down, such that there is absolutely no downside to optimizing for low end hardware?  

Yup. This is why I was asking Ryan or others, if they took photos on the release of MSFS back in August of 2020, and compared the same photos to SU 15, using the same altitude, same time of day, same weather, same angle, same plane, etc (ie. everything is the same so the comparison is controlled):

Side by side photos would be nice, and the more side by side photos would be better. Video showing side by side would be the best.

I can only say that I was here on the release of MSFS back in August of 2020 and I have not noticed a huge degradation in graphics, aside from less variation of clouds in live weather, and pop ins when I pan the plane externally (but I think there is a slider for PC that can help with pop ins).

Edited August 13, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

For me another big issue is what will maximize Microsoft's profits. Better performance is nice but MS profits are what will keep their servers up there in the cloud making flightsim possible. Their cloud seems to choke on update days, so capacity is probably limited. If 2024 is going to use the cloud more than 2020, then perhaps further overloading their servers. Console simming brings in money.

I posted this on MSFS forum about a year ago. Jane, Seb, Jorg, Martial,

4 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

I can only say that I was here on the release of MSFS back in August of 2020 and I have not noticed a huge degradation in graphics, aside from less variation of clouds in live weather, and pop ins when I pan the plane externally (but I think there is a slider for PC that can help with pop ins).

The difference between release graphics and now I agree is really more on the subtle side, and even the initial cloud depiction which is almost always touted here as substantially superior was not hugely different than now and in fact some areas have been improved in this regard.  My only want is for more realistic cloud depiction and I'm pretty sure this is such a performance-related issue we will likely not see much improvement, though some, in the 2024 release.  We need a new software/rendering approach to volumetric cloud depiction, some magic as it were, to really get to where we'd all love to be.

I've got nice hardware but still use DynamicLOD to deal w/ complex scenarios and never let TLOD go over 160.  With FSLTL and my other addons I'm pretty close to maxed out for what this hardware can do and as I mention I don't do DLSS FG which means I'm pretty much always locked at 40 or 45fps in my more complex planes so at this point can't really accommodate more graphic detail--except for clouds that is.  I have Render Scale at 160 which only shows how much GPU headroom I have to donate to cloud depiction and even w/ that rarely is the GPU running over 60%.

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Side by side photos would be nice, and the more side by side photos would be better. Video showing side by side would be the best.

I can only say that I was here on the release of MSFS back in August of 2020 and I have not noticed a huge degradation in graphics, aside from less variation of clouds in live weather, and pop ins when I pan the plane externally (but I think there is a slider for PC that can help with pop ins).

We've already been there in many threads both here and on the official forum, on discord, in facebook groups & reddit etc etc. Personally I think it's pointless going through all that again with MSFS2024 round the corner, just accept that changes did happen and not always for the best with regards to graphical quality & LOD distribution as two areas of concern.

What I think we need to do is to remember what Asobo/MS did to the Sim since 2020 (good & bad) and then judge them as MSFS2024s constant development goes through the years, as I said before if we end up with random graphical downgrades, LOD changes every other Sim Update, SUs that break things that never get fixed, performance yo-yoing all over the place and poorly tested SUs etc etc then what's it all for?!

I just hope we don't go through all that again personally and that we have a stable Sim from day 1 to day 500 where we don't need to have these types of discussions, let's wait and see 🙂

8 minutes ago, MarcG said:

just hope we don't go through all that again personally and that we have a stable Sim from day 1 to day 500 where we don't need to have these types of discussions, let's wait and see 🙂

The 'sim' has been hugely stable for me and I have probably 4000 hours of use and about 600 of that is on my current hardware.  By far the vast majority of problems have had more to do w/ addons like GSX and even PMDG.  Sure there are perhaps server-based slowdowns as MS tries to accommodate growth and developing the next version.

Which "random graphical downgrades" are not addressed by moving associated sliders to the right?  Cloud depiction to some degree but the rest are hardly worth mentioning, if they exist at all.

Just now, Noel said:

The 'sim' has been hugely stable for me and I have probably 4000 hours of use and about 600 of that is on my current hardware.  By far the vast majority of problems have had more to do w/ addons like GSX and even PMDG.  Sure there are perhaps server-based slowdowns as MS tries to accommodate growth and developing the next version.

I wasn't referring to CTDs and the like, I was referring to the unstableness of the development of MSFS2020 as a whole and how I'd like it to be more "stable" as the constant development rolls on.

5 minutes ago, MarcG said:

I was referring to the unstableness of the development of MSFS2020 as a whole

Thanks for the clarification, but what the heck is 'unstableness of the development of MSFS as a whole?'  You and I must be using the sim in very different ways and we also must have very different historical perspectives driving our POV.  I came from P3D v2, then v3, then v4 then we got off that slow moving bus.  Next comes MSFS when the pace of SU/WU has been, well to me, unprecedented.  And all of these published interactions between MS/A and the user base going on now for 4 years?  Never heard of such a thing in any game.  And at the same time a major version change has been under development for release in a couple of months.  

I think one of our differences is that I fully respect just how difficult pulling something off of this scale is and so my real belief is MS/A is managing this about as good as could be done by anyone.  This means...I don't expect perfection, I do expect changes development direction to accommodate new issues that surface over time which maybe you're calling instability.

The past four years 😄 

On 8/12/2024 at 8:12 AM, abrams_tank said:

 Because of all their work on optimizing MSFS, if you have a powerful computer, you can run MSFS at over 200 FPS

My computer is about as fast as it gets. I am not see anything close to 200FPS. Maybe with graphic settings at minimum.

2 hours ago, Noel said:

 Next comes MSFS when the pace of SU/WU has been, well to me, unprecedented.  And all of these published interactions between MS/A and the user base going on now for 4 years?  Never heard of such a thing in any game.  And at the same time a major version change has been under development for release in a couple of months.  

There is another branch of flying aeroplanes on a computer - combat flight sims - where as a developer you live or die by the quality of your flight and damage model.  For the last twenty five years these games have been continuously developed and updates have been distributed efficiently and effectively over the internet whilst their developers have interacted directly with their communities through their own forums.

Their development philosophy has been that a flight sim is never ‘finished’. As hardware improves and new technologies arrive there is always scope to improve their product.

At this time the market leaders are all working on new games, exploiting new technologies, for release next year.

 I do agree with you; as far as civilian sims are concerned, what Jorge and Asobo have done is pioneering and unprecedented. 

9 hours ago, Dillon said:

Why did you ask the question here in the first place?🤪  It would appear you need to go to the VR forum.  Either you're trolling or the elevator isn't going to the top floor...🤔

Because I asked you in the 2d section not VR. If I asked about VR I would go there.

 

Edited August 14, 20241 yr by JBDB-MD80