54 minutes ago, Jeeeno said:

MSFS has been ruined thanks to Xbox. You can say what you want but it is wishful thinking. 

The irony is had it not been for Xbox sales the sole PC sales might not of been enough to warrant constant development and MSFS could've been abandoned by now and not grown into the monster it has become.

So whilst fitting all the eggs into one basket has had some detrimental effects on the PC side of things, if they weren't all in that basket we might not be looking forward to MSFS2024 today.

My only hope is now that they have enough staff, that they can improve the PC platform and push it beyond the restraints of the Xbox whilst maintaining compatibility between the two. Especially now it's going more cloud based streaming, there's really no reason why they can't open up and improve individual PC aspects beyond what is currently possible. Let's have unlimited LODs, let's have much higher quality clouds, let us decide what our PCs can handle and not have to dial back because Xbox can't do it.

38 minutes ago, MarcG said:

The irony is had it not been for Xbox sales the sole PC sales might not of been enough to warrant constant development and MSFS could've been abandoned by now and not grown into the monster it has become.

So whilst fitting all the eggs into one basket has had some detrimental effects on the PC side of things, if they weren't all in that basket we might not be looking forward to MSFS2024 today.

My only hope is now that they have enough staff, that they can improve the PC platform and push it beyond the restraints of the Xbox whilst maintaining compatibility between the two. Especially now it's going more cloud based streaming, there's really no reason why they can't open up and improve individual PC aspects beyond what is currently possible. Let's have unlimited LODs, let's have much higher quality clouds, let us decide what our PCs can handle and not have to dial back because Xbox can't do it.

Did they need the sales of the Xbox to add features like the ability to photograph the animals for MSFS2024?

39 minutes ago, MarcG said:

My only hope is now that they have enough staff, that they can improve the PC platform and push it beyond the restraints of the Xbox whilst maintaining compatibility between the two. Especially now it's going more cloud based streaming, there's really no reason why they can't open up and improve individual PC aspects beyond what is currently possible. Let's have unlimited LODs, let's have much higher quality clouds, let us decide what our PCs can handle and not have to dial back because Xbox can't do it.

That's what I hope too.

Why we should be thankful for XBox (performance wise)

We should not, the decision to develop MSFS as one edition for PC/XBox was a mistake, comperable only with the FSX one-core strategie idea. Instead of splitting the software for each system they modifying, fiddling and optimizing and finally get not the best result for both of them, they loose the chance for future developing most modern possible software for each the PC and Xbox. For me as PC user the XBox application is totally useles and only a source of errors and there any many of them in the last four years.

Bad idea.

This and the fragile server structure without a minimum resilince and specious reliability are both the biggest disadvantages of the MSFS. Best regards

So they are tweaking a 2024/2025 so called software (advanced "simulator" graphically) to work on a 2020 X/S just about obsolete hardware that did not work well  on that console you cant even upgrade? Hmmmm. Yes 2020 hardware is obsolete in tech terms and should not represent the current times in "advanced" software that MS/Asobo claim.

 

Edited August 13, 20241 yr by JBDB-MD80

I'll say this.  MSFS is the best performing sim we've ever had in the series going back to the 1980's.🧐  That's due to Asobo's marching orders to make it work on XBOX and other platforms. I remember performance steadly improving with each update after it was implemented on XBOX.  The high visibility of XBOX in the halls of Microsoft pushed Asobo to optimize for that platform first and by default the PC side benefited.  I remember the going wisdom for what Flight Simulator offers was it had to perform like FSX.😣  Many of us skipped FSX because that reasoning was BS.  People spent more time initially tweaking that sim than simming.  That's all gone with simming thanks to XBOX implementation (install and fly).  So XBOX was a God send to the franchise and accurately leveled the expectation as to how the software should perform.  Lazy programming is out the door at this point, to many eyeballs on this title.🍺  

You're going to have to thank XBOX again when MSFS 2024 comes out and you don't need to buy a new computer to run it (which was always the case with previous versions of FS).😉

You might need to upgrade to W11 but that's about it...

Edited August 13, 20241 yr by Dillon

52 minutes ago, cseu said:

The decision to develop MSFS as one edition for PC/XBox was a mistake

I agree.

1 minute ago, Ixoye said:

I agree.

+ 1.

I don't think it's a matter of adding sliders either. Some much more fundamental things were done to shoe horn the sim into the Xbox environment.

However, I thinks it's undeniable that the continued development - at pace too - has been thanks to the inclusion of the Xbox market. 

It's a curse and a blessing.

24 minutes ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Yes 2020 hardware is obsolete in tech terms and should not represent the current times in "advanced" software that MS/Asobo claim.

I genuinely have no idea what you're going on about here. It takes 10 seconds to look at the steam hardware survey to showcase that developers still need to optimise their games to suffice the needs of the majority of the lowest common denominator in terms of hardware performance.

Avsim with its plethora of 4090 and 7800X3D owners is not at all representative of what majority of PC users have. You cannot build a game with the hopes that a 4090 and frame generation can save it, that just speaks volumes to poor optimisation. Not to mention blocking the majority of gamers due to sheer negligence.

1 hour ago, Jeeeno said:

Did they need the sales of the Xbox to add features like the ability to photograph the animals for MSFS2024?

Well, if you watched the interview with Jorg and Seb with Threshold, you would see that Jorg's vision of MSFS 2024 and probably future versions of MSFS, is to make the digital earth of MSFS even better so it can be used for other activities, other than flying.  If the digital twin earth for MSFS is successful, you can bet MSFS will be here for years to come. In fact, if the digital earth of MSFS is successful, I can see Microsoft pouring more money and resources, to make the world of MSFS look more realistic. This means improved photogrammetry, improved terrain, improved vegetation, etc.

The bigger picture is, if MSFS 2024 (or MSFS 2028) takes off because a lot of people are buying MSFS to use it for non-flying reasons, that just means MSFS is here to stay for the long run, and that Microsoft will continue to devote money and resources to make MSFS better.

I think MSFS has been effected negatively at the expense of PC for XBOX performance.

The sim was dumbed down for XBOX

One example I always thought the clouds looked heeps better before they where dumbed down for XBOX integration

Edited August 13, 20241 yr by jason74

13 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

While Xbox is good for the PC as a revenue steam, imo it's not good for graphical quality.  I recall the early tech alpha of MSFS for PC - many things like LOD and cloud quality were far better they are now.  Thankfully one can still tweak this stuff and increase range via useropt cfg

So my question is, with the sliders they added just for PC users, and the stuff that you can configure in useropt.cfg and other configuration files, can you match the LOD with how MSFS was on release in August 18th of 2020? (not the early tech alpha, but when MSFS was released back on August 18, 2020)

I was there on release of August 18, 2020. What is noticeable now is in the external view, when I pan around to different directions, objects far off will start to load in. But I believe there is a slider available for PC where you can adjust objects that load in so that you can achieve something similar before SU 5. 

As for LOD, to be honest, I am not noticing a severe degradation between SU 15 for MSFS, and MSFS on release in August 18th of 2020.  But this is just anecdotal observations by me, I never recorded video on the release of MSFS, to compare to MSFS in SU 15.  If somebody has a side by side video of MSFS on release, and MSFS in SU 15, of the exact same location, exact same angle and altitude, and exact same time of day and same time of year for comparison, please post the video so we can compare what has changed for LOD.

40 minutes ago, Lucky38i said:

I genuinely have no idea what you're going on about here.

Oh really? think about it. We are trying to go forward not backwards. 2020 is near 5 years old. Tech can not continue programming back forward to keep up with todays tech and being a developer you are you should know this.

No I don't own a 4090 or a X7800d3 and run MSFS just fine but throttle software to go back 4/5 years and be current not good.

Edited August 13, 20241 yr by JBDB-MD80

1 minute ago, JBDB-MD80 said:

Oh really? think about it. We are trying to go forward not backwards. 2020 is near 5 years old. Tech can not continue programming back forward to keep up with todays tech and being a developer you are you should know this.

Being a developer is exactly why I made this point. Programming for the best of equipment means that NO ONE except the rich can use your products. You can however program to fully utilise the most powerful of equipment whilist also programming so that you're program can still adequetly function with the majority of the lowest common denominator.

This is not about going backwards, this is called basic hardware support. Its the same reason most operating systems or software in general have a published EoL that is usually 10-15 years.

I think you need to think a bit more deeply about what's involved developing a program.

6 minutes ago, Lucky38i said:

Being a developer is exactly why I made this point. Programming for the best of equipment means that NO ONE except the rich can use your products. You can however program to fully utilise the most powerful of equipment whilist also programming so that you're program can still adequetly function with the majority of the lowest common denominator.

 

Ok I know what you mean on this one that is why I know longer can use XP12, MSFS2020 or P3Dv5 on windows 7 and have to upgrade to windows 10/11 to make it work. Lowest common denominator  right.