August 17, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, RobJC said: Instead of focusing on the UI it would be nice to know what the differences are in ATC capabilities between the offerings. What is missing? What things are better with each? The UI is just aesthetics. I don’t look at P2ATC for more than a minute or two. It is the other stuff that matters to me. There are a plethora of videos on each ATC add-on available for MSFS. You can watch and see for yourself. MSFS
August 17, 20241 yr Author 11 hours ago, pete_auau said: on their discord channel You got a link for their channel? I've got a channel, but that seems more like community support, never seen them post there .. .. G Gary Davies aka "Gazzareth" Simming since 747 on the Acorn Electron
August 17, 20241 yr Well I finally decided to give BATC a try, after many years with PF3, I got to admit, this program is awesome. I love it already. BTW, the free voices are excellent. Just landed at KLGA after a perfect flight with BATC. From taxi out to vectoring for the Rwy 22 approach, it was perfect. I am impressed with the job they have done... Edited August 17, 20241 yr by Bobsk8
August 18, 20241 yr On 8/17/2024 at 11:05 AM, CFIJose said: There are a plethora of videos on each ATC add-on available for MSFS. You can watch and see for yourself. Oh. My. Goodness. I haven't looked at ATC apps in a long time, but with the increasing availability of AI I'd hoped things had improved significantly. There are certainly improvements, but... Each of the three apps in this video would annoy me more than help with immersion. Interactions ranged from OK, to non-standard to outright wrong (though at one point the creator was his own worst enemy by insisting on a crossing clearance for a runway he'd already been cleared to cross). I know a robust ATC implementation is a hard nut to crack, really I do, but there's still a long way to go. "Say Intentions" seems to me to have the most potential, but it's obviously still limited, rough and pricey. For now, I think I'll continue to self-vector and use the pretend ATC that lives in my head. Scott Edited August 18, 20241 yr by tttocs
August 18, 20241 yr 20 minutes ago, tttocs said: Oh. My. Goodness. I haven't looked at ATC apps in a long time, but with the increasing availability of AI I'd hoped things had improved significantly. There are certainly improvements, but... Each of the three apps in this video would annoy me more than help with immersion. Interactions ranged from OK, to non-standard to outright wrong (though at one point the creator was his own worst enemy by insisting on a crossing clearance for a runway he'd already been cleared to cross). I know a robust ATC implementation is a hard nut to crack, really I do, but there's still a long way to go. "Say Intentions" seems to me to have the most potential, but it's obviously still limited, rough and pricey. For now, I think I'll continue to self-vector and use the pretend ATC that lives in my head. Scott Making up your own ATC, pretty boring. 😉
August 18, 20241 yr Author 1 hour ago, tttocs said: Oh. My. Goodness. I haven't looked at ATC apps in a long time, but with the increasing availability of AI I'd hoped things had improved significantly. There are certainly improvements, but... Each of the three apps in this video would annoy me more than help with immersion. Interactions ranged from OK, to non-standard to outright wrong (though at one point the creator was his own worst enemy by insisting on a crossing clearance for a runway he'd already been cleared to cross). I know a robust ATC implementation is a hard nut to crack, really I do, but there's still a long way to go. To be fair anyone who knows enough about ATC will be able to find enough faults that it ruins their immersion. I have in the past done enough flights without anything & find it pretty dull, but each to their own. Still need to try SI, but do find the other two can enhance the sim somewhat. G Gary Davies aka "Gazzareth" Simming since 747 on the Acorn Electron
August 18, 20241 yr 23 minutes ago, Gazzareth said: To be fair anyone who knows enough about ATC will be able to find enough faults that it ruins their immersion. I have in the past done enough flights without anything & find it pretty dull, but each to their own. Still need to try SI, but do find the other two can enhance the sim somewhat. G Flying without any ATC, is like playing checkers with yourself.😏
August 18, 20241 yr On 8/17/2024 at 4:57 PM, Bobsk8 said: Well I finally decided to give BATC a try, after many years with PF3, I got to admit, this program is awesome. I love it already. BTW, the free voices are excellent. Just landed at KLGA after a perfect flight with BATC. From taxi out to vectoring for the Rwy 22 approach, it was perfect. I am impressed with the job they have done... Something on the list of things that you thought that you would never hear said and a close second to "Take me to your leader" on that list... 🤣 Just kidding Bob. Good to hear and I might give it a try myself!
August 18, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, Vel said: Something on the list of things that you thought that you would never hear said and a close second to "Take me to your leader" on that list... 🤣 Just kidding Bob. Good to hear and I might give it a try myself! I have been using different ATC programs since Radar Contact was introduced.. BATC is by far the easiest to learn, and does everything well, as far as I can see so far. It makes flying in the sim, really fun.
August 18, 20241 yr Author 6 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said: I have been using different ATC programs since Radar Contact was introduced.. BATC is by far the easiest to learn, and does everything well, as far as I can see so far. It makes flying in the sim, really fun. I have a love/hate relationship with that one, which is why I try it and end up going back to p2atc. Some airports it refuses to work at (LGSA for example), vectors & descending still needs work as well IMHO. Initial descent is fine now, but holds on to intermediate altitudes too long. Then vectoring it often tries to vector on to ILS course rather than to intercept the ILS. Loved Radar Contact though, shame it was never procedure aware. Found that a big learning curve when I first tried p2atc... G Gary Davies aka "Gazzareth" Simming since 747 on the Acorn Electron
August 18, 20241 yr 2 minutes ago, Gazzareth said: I have a love/hate relationship with that one, which is why I try it and end up going back to p2atc. Some airports it refuses to work at (LGSA for example), vectors & descending still needs work as well IMHO. Initial descent is fine now, but holds on to intermediate altitudes too long. Then vectoring it often tries to vector on to ILS course rather than to intercept the ILS. Loved Radar Contact though, shame it was never procedure aware. Found that a big learning curve when I first tried p2atc... G Yeah, I just had a problem with a vectored 90 degree turn onto the ILS that was too close to the runway. I will just delay that turn to base, next time. The Fenix auto pilot didn't care for that sharp turn. 😏
August 18, 20241 yr Author 19 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said: Yeah, I just had a problem with a vectored 90 degree turn onto the ILS that was too close to the runway. I will just delay that turn to base, next time. The Fenix auto pilot didn't care for that sharp turn. 😏 It's a bit like it's trying to control you like an AI sometimes, rather than give you instructions... ... hope it will get there. G Gary Davies aka "Gazzareth" Simming since 747 on the Acorn Electron
August 18, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, Gazzareth said: It's a bit like it's trying to control you like an AI sometimes, rather than give you instructions... ... hope it will get there. G One thing I would like to see is a suggestion page on their Discord, do users could make suggestions.
August 18, 20241 yr 22 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said: One thing I would like to see is a suggestion page on their Discord, do users could make suggestions. It would be nice, but the only place they accept suggestions is here. https://beyondatc.nolt.io/ Edited August 18, 20241 yr by ShadowN7
August 18, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said: Making up your own ATC, pretty boring. 😉 To each their own, and I'm certainly not questioning others' choices. Do what works for you. What I saw in the video would NOT work for me. As for "boring" or "playing checkers with yourself" well, I'm not sure I get where you're coming from. All three of the programs are working from your flight plan and are intended to give you, well, pretty much what you tell it to. Just not sure I see the distinction. Having an inner voice changed over to a computer generated one that gets so much wrong from a procedural point of view just doesn't work for me. Again, not criticizing those who feel differently, just a bit disappointed that the state of the art hasn't advanced more. Would love good ATC that would introduce unknowns, the need to react to real world changes and traffic patterns and so on, throwing me the odd curve ball. But outright procedural errors, vectors into mountainsides and taxi routes that give unwanted airport tours aren't what I have in mind. These are simply annoyances to me. If others can look past the errors and feel it improves immersion I certainly respect that. It's just not (yet) for me. Now, off to a good game of checkers with my favorite opponent! Scott
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