39 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

As a side note: a vast majority of users here are sharing the opinion to buy things directly from the developer. I wonder why this does not generaly apply to MS as well 😉 (this is why I originaly went with the Store and will probably choose it again).

I think most sane people can easily see the difference in supporting a small developer relying on every dollar, as opposed to a multi-billion dollar corporation. But if one is adamant on supporting said endeavor, just pick up an addon from the marketplace or buy the next edition up of the game, so they get an additional cut. No need to give yourself a worse experience that basis.

2 hours ago, b1bmsgt said:

In the time I had the MS store version it was not like that. 

Therein lay most the social-media-driven (that would be Avsim) bias here towards Steam.  Early on one needed to understand how the Store app worked and it was clearly less than intuitive (i.e., idio_t-proof).  I poked around and learned how to use the app early on.  Not everyone else did apparently.   Since Aug 2020 did 2 completely new installs into different hardware and OS, and 2 reinstalls into Win 10 and all of the updates involved in those installs and all 100% flawless.  Over time the process smoothed out to where it's as I say done thru the sim for updates.  It's only when you have to do a new or reinstall you need to use the Store app and again it works just fine including to non-MSFS app loading.

I ran a poll early on and here was the initial response.  I show this to illustrate the amplification of problems that happens in this and all social media environments.  You can see the vast majority (87%) had no issues, it appears two persons had their issues resolved with MS Support, and two that had issues that when they responded to the poll were not resolved with MS Support.  

Edited October 1, 20241 yr by Noel

2 hours ago, Sethos said:

Hell, you can't even access your purchase if you're on Linux and want to run MSFS with Proton or something or any other unsupported platform.

MSFS User Alert!  Be sure to use Steam to install MSFS when you want to run MSFS with Proton on Linux 🤣🤫😂

6 minutes ago, Noel said:

MSFS User Alert!  Be sure to use Steam to install MSFS when you want to run MSFS with Proton on Linux 🤣🤫😂

You really are digging yourself a hole of looking exceedingly uninformed. MSFS works on Linux, has Silver status and hundreds of user feedback reports. I know it's crazy but especially with the introduction of the Steam Deck, which is Linux-based, people actually want the ability to play on Linux; https://www.protondb.com/app/1250410

A friend of mine plays games exclusively under Linux and enjoys MSFS flights daily. Something he wouldn't have been able to do if he pigeonholed himself into buying it from the MS Store.

Edited October 1, 20241 yr by Sethos

23 hours ago, Sethos said:

For the love of God, stop painting the store version as something good or like it isn't a big, fat middle-man causing issues, because it is. It's absolutely the inferior store in every way imaginable.

No. Steam has disadvantages too. It sits between the addon buyers and the developpers and takes some percents for of every marketplace sale, so the devs are getting less.

20 minutes ago, Sethos said:

You really are digging yourself a hole of looking exceedingly uninformed.

It's true I'm exceedingly uninformed about the 0.0001 % of all MSFS users who use Linux to run MSFS.  And it's okay the hole is gigantic so I'm in good company 😉

2 minutes ago, Noel said:

It's true I'm exceedingly uninformed about the 0.0001 % of all MSFS users who use Linux to run MSFS.  And it's okay the hole is gigantic so I'm in good company 😉

Also true that you've dug yourself so desperately in this trench war that any modicum of intelligence has gone completely out the Window. Even off-the-cuff mentions of positives that tell a grander tale the freedom a store provide as it's platform agnostic, is something you ridicule because you don't understand the argument and try to highlight it as a prime argument, while gleefully skipping over everything else. You used to be a man of just a little dignity around here, Noel.

7 hours ago, Sethos said:

Also true that you've dug yourself so desperately in this trench war

There's no trench war except in your head.  I fully understand what Steam is, I use it, and early on it was slightly superior to what the Store offered for MSFS installers.  The poll I took to time to share here showed this.  That changed such that there is no longer any compelling reason to recommend it over the Store install which is simple and effective as the vast majority of users can attest.   I stand behind everything I said.  Go ahead, pick something I've written here and challenge it.  Some is opinion and mine is every bit as valid as anyone else's.  

You seem to always degrade into personal insult, attempting to use shame as you're doing now and as you did previously when you viciously attacked me and the method I was sharing that truly has helped multiple people to a best experience in terms of smoothness, including some clearly tech-competent folks.  You wouldn't even try it you just began the ad hominem as you're doing now.   I know you're very technology competent but I also know you're weirdly vicious.  

On 10/2/2024 at 4:11 AM, fsiscool said:

No. Steam has disadvantages too. It sits between the addon buyers and the developpers and takes some percents for of every marketplace sale, so the devs are getting less.

True, but that is the same for almost any 'market place' whether it be games, music, supermarkets, ebay, Aliexpress etc etc. The developers, musicians, food producers, manufacturers  all naturally bemoan this but it is the cost of distribution and reaching a large audience without which their products would fall into relative obscurity. The problem is not so much that a percentage is taken,  but rather the power imbalance which can mean those percentages can be proportionally very large and the little guy has no other choice if they want their product in the market.  Specifically MSFS, a lot of developers still traditionally sell direct but many mix this with stores like Aerosoft, Contrail and Orbx to help their market reach.

I think we can all get far too precious about how we support developers.  In supporting a developer, the best thing to do is to buy their product no matter where or how they choose to sell it. That's their decision after all. Whether we buy it from MS Store or Steam, we have not only supported their product but also their decision to use that market place outlet.  

On 10/2/2024 at 11:30 PM, Lord Farringdon said:

That's their decision after all.

No, the dev can only decide to sell on the inbuilt marketplace.

After that the earnings from marketplace sales just come, some from users who own the store version and some from steam users. But from a sale to a steam user, the percentage the dev sees is less. So your decision to choose steam is costing the dev a few percentages, which will go into steam's pockets.

On 9/30/2024 at 5:42 PM, Sethos said:

For the love of God, stop painting the store version as something good or like it isn't a big, fat middle-man causing issues, because it is. It's absolutely the inferior store in every way imaginable.

Steam is actually worse, since with Steam you have not one but two middle-men.

I don't know if the percentages are (still) correct, but IIRC, Microsoft takes 30% of the marketplace sales. Steam takes 30%. So if you have the Store version the developer will get 70% of the money. If you have the Steam version, Microsoft gets its 30% and then Steam gets 30%, which means there is just 51% left for the developer.

 

Edited October 4, 20241 yr by Allard
corrected% after checking

1 hour ago, fsiscool said:

No, the dev can only decide to sell on the inbuilt marketplace.

After that the earnings from marketplace sales just come, some from users who own the store version and some from steam users. But from a sale to a steam user, the percentage the dev sees is less. So your decision to choose steam is costing the dev a few percentages, which will go into steam's pockets.

 

35 minutes ago, Allard said:

Steam is actually worse, since with Steam you have not one but two middle-men.

I don't know if the percentages are (still) correct, but IIRC, Microsoft takes 30% of the marketplace sales. Steam takes 30%. So if you have the Store version the developer will get 70% of the money. If you have the Steam version, Microsoft gets its 30% and then Steam gets 30%, which means there is just 51% left for the developer.

 

@fsiscool and @Allard. I'm not sure how you know what the developers specific commercial arrangements and percentage takes are with Microsoft (normally commercially sensitive information) but perhaps you are or have been developers? @Allard. I think you mean " Microsoft gets its 30% and then Steam gets 30%, which means there is just 40% left for the developer." ?

Regardless, your argument is that the consumer should not make a rational choice between Steam and the Store, and  should instead only purchase from the Store because doing so improves  the developers income stream. I don't subscribe to your point of view. The developer makes the rational decision to sell on the marketplace in full knowledge of this disparity and will price their product accordingly. If Microsoft did not allow Steam users to access the market place without going through the Store, then the developer and Microsoft would experience significantly reduced sales because, as this whole thread so amply points out, many users are Steam based and unlikely to go to the Store.  As I said before,  the best way to support the developer is to buy their product, anywhere it is suitably available for the consumer. The price you pay will almost certainly reflect the distribution costs the developer is exposed to.  

 

30 minutes ago, Lord Farringdon said:

@Allard I think you mean " Microsoft gets its 30% and then Steam gets 30%, which means there is just 40% left for the developer." ?

Microsoft gets a 30% cut of the original cost, which means that Steam (presumably) takes a 30% cut of what is left (70% of the original total). That equates to 21%, so technically the developer is left with 49% of the original price.

56 minutes ago, Lord Farringdon said:

Regardless, your argument is that the consumer should not make a rational choice between Steam and the Store, and  should instead only purchase from the Store because doing so improves  the developers income stream. I don't subscribe to your point of view.

I was responding to someone who was claiming that the Store version was bad because of a "big, fat middle-man causing issues", and made it look like like Steam isn't also a "big and fat middle-man".

Some people seem to think "their" store is immaculate and the other is the devil's work. Everybody is entitled to his/her opinion but I dislike misinformation and some seem to religiously try to attack one store and defend the other.

In the current state of both stores, -from a customer point of view- I see no reason to choose one above the other. If you don't have MSFS2020 you can go either way. If you already have MSFS2020 and purchased something in the marketplace it is best not to change stores.

On 10/1/2024 at 6:24 PM, Noel said:

I ran a poll early on and here was the initial response.  I show this to illustrate the amplification of problems that happens in this and all social media environments.  You can see the vast majority (87%) had no issues, it appears two persons had their issues resolved with MS Support, and two that had issues that when they responded to the poll were not resolved with MS Support.  

13% of users having issues with a process that is supposed to be fully automated is a high percentage, just saying...