I am not into supercars but a friend of mine made a very good point in this debate, he argued always Ferrari, and the reason is because you can't really drive these things as they are meant to, but when you are cruising in a Porche or fancy new EV no one is looking, its just techno geek stuff, when you are cruising in a Ferrari, people look twice 

So yea I guess if attention grabbing was my thing, I would choose a Ferrari 

Edited November 25, 20241 yr by Matthew Kane

3 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Why are you always pushing EVs so hard?  

 

I'm not "pushing" anything. I'm correcting misconceptions. Just like I would with any statement that's factually wrong. Just like I would with climate change fallacies, scientific misconceptions, why atoms aren't mostly empty space (remember that one?) why cats lick their bums... or why one of your conspiracy theories is wrong. If I think anything is wrong, I will say so. 

 

Quote

You also talk as if you have actual knowledge and experience with EVs, but you don't.

 

The actual knowledge is in the public domain. Unless you think the Rimac in the video above doesn't exist? As for personnel experience, I've driven three now, not that I need to do that to post factual information that anyone can research.

 

Quote

I'm genuinely curious why EVs are so important to you.

 

They aren't! I rarely think about them. The only time I do is when someone posts something that's incorrect. Same with climate change, the other subject that sends you into a quiver, 😁

I'm genuinely curious as to why you always get in a tizzy when anyone corrects an EV fallacy. 

Edited November 25, 20241 yr by martin-w

Not my quotes Martin!

40 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Not my quotes Martin!

 

Don't know why that happened. Forum glitch. Corrected. 

Edited November 25, 20241 yr by martin-w

2 hours ago, ailchim said:

The average price of an EV in the UK is £54,300

 

From what ive just Googled its 46K. But of course, there are plenty cheaper, not just the MG. 

 

2 hours ago, ailchim said:

the majority have been purchased as company cars

 

No... 

https://newautomotive.org/blog/who-owns-britains-evs

 

 

Quote

 

2023 saw record numbers of privately-owned battery electric cars
Despite news stories saying that private buyers are shunning BEVs, the number of electric cars owned by individuals (rather than companies) hit a record high

 

 

2 hours ago, ailchim said:

The power supply to the city of Exeter would have to be increased by one third.  One third.  That's likely to be replicated across the country.  All those pylons.

 

Well, that's a different objection to your previous comments regarding super-car EV's not possible. But..

The National Grid address those misconceptions, here...

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/electric-vehicles-myths-misconceptions

 

2 hours ago, ailchim said:

More than one third of houses in the UK were built before 1944.  Because private car ownership was rare then, many do not have off-road parking and therefore cannot provide off-road charging.  

 

Correct! Its about 30% of UK households that don't have off-road parking. Currently, councils are under pressure to provide on-street charging facilities, for example within lighting posts. Grants are available but more needs to be done.  

 

2 hours ago, ailchim said:

 compared to producing green hydrogen at wind or solar power sites and transporting it to filling stations is debatable.

 

Well, currently, 95% of all hydrogen is manufactured from fossil fuels. Trouble is that hydrogen has a very low volumetric energy density, and it has to be transported and stored in a highly compressed form. There just isn't the infrastructure available for transportation of compressed hydrogen and it's storage. There are only 16 such stations in the UK, 59 in the US. BEV's are light-years ahead in development. And of course, hydrogen is very volatile. It is possible to power an ICE with hydrogen but they are very inefficient compared with electric vehicles. Fuel cells are a possibility, but they utilize expensive catalysts like platinum and have other issues. BEV's are simple and efficient, unlike the complexity of other solutions.

The other point of course is that battery tech is advancing rapidly. Solid State battery cars are now on the road in China and Japan and production facilities are up and running. 

 

2 hours ago, ailchim said:

What I do know is that there will have to be a vast investment in the electricity distribution network to get a convenient charge to 41m vehicles.

 

See National Grid Link.

 

2 hours ago, ailchim said:

for Jaguar be abandoning their existing market entirely and to be basing their entire future on the very uncertain prospect of a comprehensive charging network being available is a gamble to say the least and rank stupidity at worst. 

 

Its probably something they have thought about very carefully. Just as Lamborghini and others have. 

 

 

4 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Go woke, go broke.

Oh geeez … why the moderators have not eliminated you from this site a long time ago only suggests their political bias. 

EV’s are important for many reasons:

1.  They are 47% more efficient with energy.

2.  They can be powered by multiple energy sources that don’t create climate issues.

3.  They’re quiet.

4.  They produce A LOT less heat.

5.  They require considerably less maintenance.

6.  Pending EV brand the batteries are between 85%-99% recyclable. 

7.  They allow one to go completely OFF GRID with zero reliance on power companies.

The more rational question for you is why you choose to ignore facts and persist in delusion?  I’m sure the moderators will remove this post as they seem to have a bias swing in your favor where you can trigger but not be held to the same standards.

Edited November 25, 20241 yr by CO2Neutral

3 hours ago, ailchim said:

Whether EV's are the right solution compared to producing green hydrogen at wind or solar power sites and transporting it to filling stations is debatable.  I don't know the answer.  What I do know is that there will have to be a vast investment in the electricity distribution network to get a convenient charge to 41m vehicles

EVs are the ONLY solution.  They can be powered by anything that can generate electricity, solar, wind, steam, geo, etc. etc.  Oil is a finite resource where its extraction costs and energy used (survey/discovery, drilling, transport, refinement) will exceed its contained energy being extracted by 2071 (1.6 Trillions barrels left of extractable oil).

There already is a vast network of electricity distribution, what do you think is powering the PC, lights, washer, dryer, etc. in your location?  The is some persisting falsehood that EVs can’t be charged via standard home outlet?  In fact, the home outlets in the UK (220v-240v) are actually better for charging EVs than US standard 110-120v.  I’ve been using EVs since 2015 and have never ran into a situation where I’m “stuck somewhere”.  Range anxiety is just that, self inflicted anxiety based on some sort of mental block.  I’ve never had range anxiety because 99% of my travel is less than 300 mi per week … I go to work (20mi round trip), get home, repeat and charge overnight when I’m sleeping.  Never having to line up at a gas station has freed me up to do other things in life, it doesn’t get more simple than pull into your garage and plug-in … much better than wait in line, wait and fill the car up with gas, check the oil, pay a price you have no control over, resume your trip … how is that better than charging my EVs?

As far as cost, EVs are considerably cheaper to product than ICE vehicles, far fewer moving parts.  2023 Chevy EV Bolt was $28,000 … $32,000 if you go fully equipped with leather etc.  … real range is around 315 mi (the 254mi is well below actual).  If using the regen paddle on the steering wheel to come to a stop or go downhill then range can be extended by 20 miles or more pending the terrain.  Sure, power used to climb the hill/mountain and much of that power can be regenerated back into the batteries on the way down … what goes up must come down.

Then more false information that using heater or AC will drastically drop range.  The climate system in the Chevy EV Bolt reduces range by 25 mi in winter (snow) months and 15 mi in hot summer months.  These are actual numbers from actual experience and not mythical “internet” numbers from some guy on YouTube or Facebook making up some story to get attention.

Most of the “true” supercars these days are EV based or going to be EV based because it just makes sense due to ability to place batteries anywhere on the car, ability to build small per wheel drive motors, ability to use traction control systems that far exceed accuracy of ICE TC systems, ability to keep CG low, open car design to the imagination.

Edited November 25, 20241 yr by CO2Neutral

1 hour ago, CO2Neutral said:

Oh geeez … why the moderators have not eliminated you from this site a long time ago only suggests their political bias

Wha? No! It suggests that we are all entitled to our opinions on these boards.

Oh boy! 

Last January, videos on Youtube, near where I live, of people backed up in line to get a charge for over a mile. They were in Reno, visiting that state on Holiday. It was not the lack of charging stations. Is was that every recharge was taking almost an hour for enough charge to get down I-80 to arrive in Sacramento where the weather was not sub zero Fahrenheit. The people in those videos were screaming and swearing to ditch their electric. They needed to get back to work on Monday so as not to be fired.

One day batteries that recharge in the cold will be in electrics. Some decades from now, perhaps longer.

Some of them were saying they had already waited in line 7 hours.

 

7 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

I believe it's called 'having an opinion'.

You certainly have yours Dave. Is he not allowed to have his?

Of course.  I was just asking why he is so fervent in his support for and defense of EVs. 

I won't rehash old debates, but ailchim makes a good point about the electricity required.  This and other serious problems with EVs are something that advocates of them, as well as other related things, don't like to talk about.  They get defensive and even hostile when someone simply poses a question which challenges their beliefs.  The responses are often unreasonable and even hysterical at times.

To get back to the original post, I predict that Jaguar either changes their advertising, or they lose sales and end up being bought out by some Chinese company.

Dave

The moral of the cold weather fiasco is that hybrids are the sensible electrics. Toyota knows this very well.

37 minutes ago, Fielder said:

Last January, videos on Youtube, near where I live, of people backed up in line to get a charge for over a mile. They were in Reno, visiting that state on Holiday. It was not the lack of charging stations. Is was that every recharge was taking almost an hour for enough charge to get down I-80 to arrive in Sacramento where the weather was not sub zero Fahrenheit. The people in those videos were screaming and swearing to ditch their electric. They needed to get back to work on Monday so as not to be fired.

One day batteries that recharge in the cold will be in electrics. Some decades from now, perhaps longer.

How dare you!!!!!!!!😛

Dave