15 hours ago, udidwht said:

Same here (you really shouldn't think otherwise). Not interested in walking around it's a flying sim. Implied and duplicate have different meanings. Enough with word salad.

Whether or not you want to walk around in the sim is beside the point (many of us do). We are discussing the quality of the MS2020 vs. MS2024 ground scenery, which you brought up with your claim that Bijan's scenery allows one to replicate what MS2024 does -- which is clearly not the case. 

On 3/4/2025 at 8:35 AM, Bobsk8 said:

And the latest numbers from Steam survey shows twice as many users still flying 2020, versus 2024. So there is that.. 🤣

Pretty meaningless numbers.

There are probably an array of reasons for this!

None align with your continued disdain of MS2024 your previous posts do nothing but continually preach to us how bad it is!

It could easily be people are happy with 2020 and just don't want to spend money right now on a new or upgraded product. Some might be waiting for the marketplace. Some might wait until a particular 3rd part item is available. Who really can say.

Edited March 12, 20251 yr by tpete61

2 minutes ago, tpete61 said:

Pretty meaningless numbers.

There are probably an array of reasons for this!

None align with your continued narrative that MS2024 is garbage.

It could easily be people are happy with 2020 and just don't want to spend money right now on a new or upgraded product. Some might be waiting for the marketplace. Some might wait until a particular 3rd part item is available. Who really can say.

And another reason is that people prefer flying with a sim that is ready. BTW, where did I say that "MS2024 is garbage". Stop making up stuff and claiming that I said it. 

14 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

And another reason is that people prefer flying with a sim that is ready. BTW, where did I say that "MS2024 is garbage". Stop making up stuff and claiming that I said it. 

What word would you like me to use?

You have repeatedly taken a stand against MSFS2024.

Obviously many feel 2024 is ready as is evident on this forum.

Just now, tpete61 said:

What word would you like me to use?

You have repeatedly taken a stand against MSFS2024.

Obviously many feel 2024 is ready as is evident on this forum.

Look, I was clear in what I just said. I will say it again, where did I say that "MSFS 2024 was garbage" , post a link or shut up. 

Not a very good comparison.  Real is green, so why use that area when bing is brown?

Those solar panels IRL looks unrealistic and cartoonish. The Steam policy says I cannot request a refund if I have used the product for more than an hour that complicates the matter...

7 hours ago, cobalt said:

Whether or not you want to walk around in the sim is beside the point (many of us do). We are discussing the quality of the MS2020 vs. MS2024 ground scenery, which you brought up with your claim that Bijan's scenery allows one to replicate what MS2024 does -- which is clearly not the case. 

Again I did not claim replicate. 2024 does not bring much more to the table that 2020 hasn't already brought. Perhaps in a couple of years.

 

Quote...

"This is incorrect. I use and enjoy the Bijan scenery, but the advances in ground scenery in MS2024 vs. MS2020 are considerable, and beyond the scope of what Bijan is capable of."

 

Again incorrect. Bijan adds a whole new eco system to the sim some of which are...

What does “4 season pack” include?

1. Over 70 new multi ecosystems featuring over 45 trees, shrubs and bushes which are placed in the world based on native vegetation.
2. Animated waterfalls
3. Active volcanoes
4. Active wildfires
5. Spring terrain mask for Los Angeles
6. Spring flower blossoms in all cities.
7. Flower fields for spring season in many parts of the world, UK, Africa, Asia, Europe, USA
8. New tree distribution by elevation.
9. Works great with photogrammetry trees, including new WU8 (Australia)
10. Four multi seasons. Changes seasons on the opposite side of the hemisphere.
11. Real tree model of Joshua trees in Joshua National Park - (24800 Joshua trees).
12. New 3d tree (Pinus Sylvestris) (5000 in Norway)
13. Redwood giant trees in California
14. New Blood Dragon trees in Socotra Island, Yemen  (3000 Trees)
15. Famous Hills in China by Li River
16. Rocky cliff islands.
17. 3d winter trees in small patches in specific areas only.
18. 3d Plumeria trees in Honolulu, Hawaii
19. 17,000 Rhododendron 3d trees in mountain of Nepal in Sagarmatha National Park
20. Baobab 3d trees in Madagascar
21. Wildflowers and flower farms in Amsterdam and Africa, and UK for spring season.
22. Covers the whole earth.
23. True to life size trees
24. Cleared trees in 100's of runways.
25. Barely have any impact on performance.
26. Over 60 different shapes and species of trees and bushes. You will discover more variety of trees in most places. You will now find various sizes and colors of palm trees in tropical areas. Trees have been added to many areas based on native trees. Many conifer trees that were placed in wrong areas have been removed and replaced with deciduous trees. Many of the very tall trees have been replaced with shorter ones.
     
27. Every season changes colors depending on region. conifers in north Canada or Alaska and other colder areas will remain green no matter what season you choose.
    Tropical areas will stay green all year long.  
     
28. All trees now have normal and natural size, depending on region. Some trees have been enlarged (mostly within cities to match real life trees.  Some trees have been reduced in other places. This is done based on research and studying images from Google and Bing data. You will notice denser vegetation in most areas.

 

Spring:
Spring Season mod will change trees and shrubs to shades of beautiful spring colors within cities only. Forest and areas outside cities will have bright spring green colors only.  You will find colorful trees such as cherry blossom, jacaranda, wisteria, etc. There are pink, purple, white, yellow colored trees. 

Summer:
All trees and shrubs now have beautiful shades of green and different sizes.
Added a variety of tree types to each region.
Added missing palm trees in some tropical areas.
Added cactus to some of the desert areas.

Fall:
This mod will convert trees all over the world into fall season colors. Tropical areas will have less fall colors since they stay mostly green all year round.
This is a must have to bring the beauty of fall season into this amazing sim. All trees and shrubs have now beautiful brown, green, orange, yellow and red colors, depending on region.

Winter:
Winter Mod changes most trees to multiple brown and gray colors. (except conifer trees) Brown/gray trees look much more natural in winter and with snow instead of green trees with snow.
Most other trees and shrubs now have brown and pale green colors, depending on region.

Winter season does not automatically place snow in scenes. If you want to see snow, you will have to add snow manually in the weather setting or fly in an area in live weather to see snow. Bare winter trees are only placed in specific spots.

 

Edited March 12, 20251 yr by udidwht

6 hours ago, udidwht said:

Again I did not claim replicate. 2024 does not bring much more to the table that 2020 hasn't already brought. Perhaps in a couple of years.

 

Quote...

"This is incorrect. I use and enjoy the Bijan scenery, but the advances in ground scenery in MS2024 vs. MS2020 are considerable, and beyond the scope of what Bijan is capable of."

 

Again incorrect. Bijan adds a whole new eco system to the sim some of which are...

What does “4 season pack” include?

1. Over 70 new multi ecosystems featuring over 45 trees, shrubs and bushes which are placed in the world based on native vegetation.
2. Animated waterfalls
3. Active volcanoes
4. Active wildfires
5. Spring terrain mask for Los Angeles
6. Spring flower blossoms in all cities.
7. Flower fields for spring season in many parts of the world, UK, Africa, Asia, Europe, USA
8. New tree distribution by elevation.
9. Works great with photogrammetry trees, including new WU8 (Australia)
10. Four multi seasons. Changes seasons on the opposite side of the hemisphere.
11. Real tree model of Joshua trees in Joshua National Park - (24800 Joshua trees).
12. New 3d tree (Pinus Sylvestris) (5000 in Norway)
13. Redwood giant trees in California
14. New Blood Dragon trees in Socotra Island, Yemen  (3000 Trees)
15. Famous Hills in China by Li River
16. Rocky cliff islands.
17. 3d winter trees in small patches in specific areas only.
18. 3d Plumeria trees in Honolulu, Hawaii
19. 17,000 Rhododendron 3d trees in mountain of Nepal in Sagarmatha National Park
20. Baobab 3d trees in Madagascar
21. Wildflowers and flower farms in Amsterdam and Africa, and UK for spring season.
22. Covers the whole earth.
23. True to life size trees
24. Cleared trees in 100's of runways.
25. Barely have any impact on performance.
26. Over 60 different shapes and species of trees and bushes. You will discover more variety of trees in most places. You will now find various sizes and colors of palm trees in tropical areas. Trees have been added to many areas based on native trees. Many conifer trees that were placed in wrong areas have been removed and replaced with deciduous trees. Many of the very tall trees have been replaced with shorter ones.
     
27. Every season changes colors depending on region. conifers in north Canada or Alaska and other colder areas will remain green no matter what season you choose.
    Tropical areas will stay green all year long.  
     
28. All trees now have normal and natural size, depending on region. Some trees have been enlarged (mostly within cities to match real life trees.  Some trees have been reduced in other places. This is done based on research and studying images from Google and Bing data. You will notice denser vegetation in most areas.

 

Spring:
Spring Season mod will change trees and shrubs to shades of beautiful spring colors within cities only. Forest and areas outside cities will have bright spring green colors only.  You will find colorful trees such as cherry blossom, jacaranda, wisteria, etc. There are pink, purple, white, yellow colored trees. 

Summer:
All trees and shrubs now have beautiful shades of green and different sizes.
Added a variety of tree types to each region.
Added missing palm trees in some tropical areas.
Added cactus to some of the desert areas.

Fall:
This mod will convert trees all over the world into fall season colors. Tropical areas will have less fall colors since they stay mostly green all year round.
This is a must have to bring the beauty of fall season into this amazing sim. All trees and shrubs have now beautiful brown, green, orange, yellow and red colors, depending on region.

Winter:
Winter Mod changes most trees to multiple brown and gray colors. (except conifer trees) Brown/gray trees look much more natural in winter and with snow instead of green trees with snow.
Most other trees and shrubs now have brown and pale green colors, depending on region.

Winter season does not automatically place snow in scenes. If you want to see snow, you will have to add snow manually in the weather setting or fly in an area in live weather to see snow. Bare winter trees are only placed in specific spots.

 

The scenery alterations by Bijan are great, but many of them are for specific areas and not general. Seasonal changes are incorporated into MS2024 basic scenery, so Bijan is not needed for this.  You are of course entitled to your opinion on MS2024, as am I. Based on extensive use of both sims, it is obvious to me that MS2024 on or near the ground is not only superior to MS2020, but by a wide margin. The more I use MS2024 the more I appreciate this difference.  

Re Bijan scenery vs. MS2024, one other point: Bijan offers four seasonal changes, while the vegetation in MS2024 actually changes incrementally day-by-day throughout the year -- amazing!

This allows one to experience gradual, rather than sudden, transitions between seasons, and is another way in which a sense of real-world immersion is advanced.

There are some clear and positive improvements in 2024 but there is still so much missing it's just not ready for a complete transition out of 2020.  Just yesterday I was able to incrementally bring in some 3rd party airports from 2020 only to try to land into CYVR (FSDT's) only discover taxiways covered with weeds and turf.  And the day before, flying KSBA to KBIH then upon arrival KBIH was nowhere to be found!  

These issues aside, 2020 still offers fabulous graphics, stability, compatibility, etc.  This morning this out of KLAS and this compressed image does not do it justice:

dont worry if theyd done it in the inibuilds it would of wasm'd on touchdown 

1 hour ago, cobalt said:

Re Bijan scenery vs. MS2024, one other point: Bijan offers four seasonal changes, while the vegetation in MS2024 actually changes incrementally day-by-day throughout the year -- amazing!

This allows one to experience gradual, rather than sudden, transitions between seasons, and is another way in which a sense of real-world immersion is advanced.

Yes, I've started to see Cherry trees in blossom.