7 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

That automatically makes it a hobby.

Whatever makes you happy

13 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Good grief. 

Don't forget:

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/275672-making-better-use-of-hardware-with-virtualisation-impressive-gains/&page=2#findComment-2870436

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/299432-fps-breakdowns-in-intervalls/&page=3#findComment-2884541

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/299432-fps-breakdowns-in-intervalls/&page=2#findComment-2656701

I disagree with Sid/Janov on that last one. It should be 16/2 - 2 in his example. Not -1. XP will often use 1.5-2 cores under normal circumstances. Leaving only 1 core open for the main XP process es isn't quite enough for full comfort.

 

14 minutes ago, blingthinger said:

Good grief. 

Don't forget:

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/275672-making-better-use-of-hardware-with-virtualisation-impressive-gains/&page=2#findComment-2870436

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/299432-fps-breakdowns-in-intervalls/&page=3#findComment-2884541

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/299432-fps-breakdowns-in-intervalls/&page=2#findComment-2656701

I disagree with Sid/Janov on that last one. It should be 16/2 - 2 in his example. Not -1. XP will often use 1.5-2 cores under normal circumstances. Leaving only 1 core open for the main XP process es isn't quite enough for full comfort.

Thanks,

I ran through Windows 11 and removed a ton of services that helped greatly in getting the 7950x3d operating very smooth as the server. Dropped windows background processes from 90 to 58 and user processes from 58 down to 24. I have that data saved, so I'll be removing them in the new builds as well. The 2.5GB router/switch should handle the  network connection without issue.

I've tried --num_workers=X years ago, didn't see any difference. Since the computer is used for flight sim only I turned off the non 3D cores via the bios.

Sounds like num_workers is for getting around SMT sillyness. I suppose adding screens/displays causing FPS jitter doesn't fully hurt my head right now. But running the master as a second unique instance should be smooth. That one could happily sit on the non x3d cores. Would probably need process lasso + num_workers there to keep them separated on their own CCD and not overload whatever cpu allocation you corralled each into.

Well, we can put this one to bed.  At least for Mac's.  This is what my CPU bottomed out at, and occasionally spiked up to 110%.  Maybe it's a Windows issue on your end.

Edited March 14, 20251 yr by GoranM

Wasn't X-plane developed on a Mac?

37 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Wasn't X-plane developed on a Mac?

Yes.  Austin is a massive Apple fan.  

Obviously, we can get into a whole Windows vs Mac argument, but I think it's agreeable that MacOS, and Mac's, are far more efficient and reliable than Windows/Microsoft.  But Windows is far more popular with gamers.  And this is coming from someone who started with Windows 95.  I got my first Mac in 2019, and I haven't gone back to Windows.  I've owned 3 MBP's and 1 iMac since that time.  I still have a Windows PC with Windows 11, but it only gets used for testing add ons in a Windows environment.

In your case, assuming you're using Windows, I'm putting your issue down to Windows not allocating its resources the way MacOS does.

Edited March 14, 20251 yr by GoranM

3 hours ago, GoranM said:

Obviously, we can get into a whole Windows vs Mac argument, but I think it's agreeable that MacOS, and Mac's, are far more efficient and reliable than Windows/Microsoft.  

It's not agreeable at all. In fact, it's quite disagreeable. How well a program runs on a given platform often depends on developer skills and familiarity with that platform.  A company might even have a separate team for each platform.

The clearest example is when developers build games for consoles and then port them over to PC, and they run like word not allowed on PCs. Or vice versa, they build it for PC, where it runs well but runs like word not allowed on the console. Programs usually run better on the platform they are built on because that is where most of the testing takes place, and the other platforms are tested later. 

If by efficient, you mean the arm processors being better on battery life, then yes. This is only relevant if we are talking about laptops though. Also, many arm Windows laptops are hitting the market now with comparable battery life. But gamers prefer raw power over battery life.

Here we go.  Why am I not surprised?

You can love Windows as much as you want.  I trust the people I work with, along with the information that is out there.  Toto (Saso) who codes the add ons we make, puts Linux at the top, with MacOS a distant 2nd, and Windows...he simply refuses to work on, unless he absolutely has to.

2 hours ago, brinx said:

The clearest example is when developers build games for consoles and then port them over to PC, and they run like word not allowed on PCs.

Did you miss what I wrote just 1 post above yours?

6 hours ago, GoranM said:

But Windows is far more popular with gamers.

Apple devices are not made for gaming.  Everyone acknowledges that.  Even though they can run Windows games with products like Parallels or Crossover.  But in the time I've been working on Mac's, I've never had a single crash of a single MacOS version or application.  My Windows PC?  I just had a lockup last night.

2 hours ago, brinx said:

If by efficient, you mean the arm processors being better on battery life, then yes.

Are you seriously saying the ONLY difference in CPU's is the effect on battery life?  Come on. Please tell me you're more knowledgeable on CPU differences than that.  

What about virus/malware issues.  Security.  The lack of, or no need for a registry on Mac's.  The fact you can just hit delete on a program on a Mac to "uninstall" it.  Not go through a whole uninstall procedure, while still leaving registry entries and miscellaneous files on the drive.

Bus Speeds on Apple Silicon, with the GPU and memory integrated onto the chip instead of separate components.

Would you like me to go on?

 

Edited March 14, 20251 yr by GoranM

44 minutes ago, GoranM said:

My Windows PC?  I just had a lockup last night.

Cant remember last time had windows crash, but than it isnt loaded with fat. As for OS its more than performance but these days doesnt matter, they all steal your data. Ms just mads it more obvious in win 11. Nit sure how long linux will hold out.

4 hours ago, brinx said:

it's quite disagreeable

You must have missed Mike's earlier post in this thread about how many extraneous processes he's recently turned off in win11. More cogs turning is more room for system inefficiency at the best and system failure at the worst. Windows is by far the worst offender in both of those categories. In Mike's case specifically, he doesn't want some silly xbox gamepass process trying to use the network when the sim is sending data to one of the external display computers.

Claiming that OS resource allocation and usage cannot be ranked, is hilarious. For example, the linux kernel recently adopted some changes (sched_ext) that allow users to more easily customize the thread scheduler. This makes it significantly easier to adapt the OS to a specific software use case (on the fly no less). Windows provides nowhere near that level of access.

And that's just the beginning of a list that makes it agreeable to say that the OSes can indeed be ranked in terms of resource allocation.

4 hours ago, GoranM said:

 I trust the people I work with, along with the information that is out there.  Toto (Saso) who codes the add ons we make, puts Linux at the top, with MacOS a distant 2nd, and Windows

In my opinion, Windows will be a better experience for the average consumer with the least amount of frustration. But it all comes down to user preferences and specific use cases. I'm also a Mac and Linux user. My desktop is Windows, while my laptop is a MacBook. As a developer, I used to prefer the Mac due to its Linux-like environment. In my case, Docker and Linux subsystems for Windows eliminated the need for MacOS.

I don't care what OS people use and I'm not arguing for one or the other. My point is that one OS is not necessarily better than the other. A program developed and optimized for Windows will run better on Windows, while a program developed and optimized for another platform like PlayStation will likely run better on PlayStations. This is why some companies may have platform teams to create parity across the ones they support.

2 hours ago, blingthinger said:

You must have missed Mike's earlier post in this thread about how many extraneous processes he's recently turned off in win11. More cogs turning is more room for system inefficiency at the best and system failure at the worst. Windows is by far the worst offender in both of those categories.

I agree that there is bloatware that users can delete. This is not unique to windows though. It happens on other OSes as well. iPhone and Android come with a lot of bloatware from manufacturers and phone companies. The first thing I do is delete the garbage I don't want from these devices. I remember on earlier versions of iOS, Apple didn't allow you to delete certain unnecessary apps.

 

6 minutes ago, brinx said:

My point is that one OS is not necessarily better than the other.

Nooo your point was that it's not possible to judge resource allocation and stability behavior. 'Disagreeable' to do so, was your exact wording.

 

 

I would challenge your statement, many windows games that shouldn’t run on my pc , happily chug along in my Steam proton under Linux.

the fact is that Linyx is using much less resources, even when falling back to wine.

14 hours ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Wasn't X-plane developed on a Mac?

Yes but LR team uses all OSes, we have devs who use Windows, Linux and macOS. For instance Sid uses Windows, Ben uses macOS, Daniel uses Linux and so on. In other words, there isn't a case where an OS is a second class citizen.

Also this is my personal opinion but I feel like the issue of services on Windows is (slightly) overblown. Yes Windows is notorious for being bloated with services and other stuff, but the OS is not completely clueless and the footprint of them reduce a lot when a game is running. With that being said the story is different when it comes to lower end hardware, where the bloat becomes a lot more significant, and this is one area Linux shines.

Lastly I feel like comparing utilization values between different OSes might not always make sense, as different OSes might have different interpretations of utilization.

If anyone is wondering what I'm using, I'm using macOS right now. I was a Linux user before, and a Windows user before that. I personally had comparable performance in both Linux and Windows (I can't compare macOS as it wasn't the same hardware) and good stability in all of them (in Linux my stability experience wildly depended on the distro though), though I should mention that I had mid-high end hardware (i5-12400F, 3070 Ti), so Windows' bloat wasn't exactly bottlenecking things as it handles the bloat better when a game is running like I mentioned above.

I have spicy opinions on which one I like the most but I'm going to keep that to myself 😅

Edited March 14, 20251 yr by Maya2

7 hours ago, GoranM said:

Toto (Saso) who codes the add ons we make, puts Linux at the top, with MacOS a distant 2nd, and Windows...he simply refuses to work on, unless he absolutely has to.

Smart guy

I was on the fence about whether to comment on this, but since we are on the general topic of how much has changed over the last few years wrt Laminar, discord, networking "etc".

My opinion on mac has evolved rapidly, prior to building mac addons for xplane I had no experience of them, I was linux only and very much in the same "wont touch windows unless I absolutely have to".

Now, I'm probably 50/50 macos and linux.

I few weeks ago I discovered mac also has hot corners, and tbh, with that, I'd probably rate it overall higher than linux. 

For development purposes, nothing touches Linux sure, but not everything in life is developing new stuff, and Im sure mac is really just as capable, just not as flexible.

Windows, now, is a total train wreck, software and hardware has come a very long way over the last few years, and windows simply hasnt kept up.

My "only" complaint for mac is apple silicon dropped eGPU support and apple generally is still at war with nvidia, if I could plug a decent nvidia card as an eGPU into my macbook air I'd probably not use anything else. I cant.

So Linux is my main.

Literally just ordered a wifi6 router so I can use the quest 3 with it.