9 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

I'm not sure about scenery but maybe @vbazillio would know?

Is it more or not complex to develop scenery in MSFS than in previous opus? As my previous experience of scenery development was a small heliport before the 2000 😉 I can't really tell.
Nevertheless and as a (sorry again) amateur-freeware-small-GA-airport developer, I tend to believe that it's easier with MSFS. The outstanding visual  embedded WYSIWYG ((What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get) scenery editor and the dedication of the huge community make the difference.

Edited February 22Feb 22 by vbazillio

10 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

I'm curious, how does the freeware community and the amount of freeware add-ons for MSFS compare to P3D, FSX, and other civilian flight simulators?

I was a user of FSX, but I stopped using FSX probably after 2008, and all the freeware community exploded after I stopped, I think.  

So, I see, you left FSX in about 2 years. FSX was released in late 2006, and I stayed in the (original) FSX from 2006, till a couple of months prior to the (repackaged) release of the FSX: Steam Edition, in late 2014, I think. I then resumed with FSX: Steam Edition in early 2015 and stuck with it for the rest of my (FSX) journey all the way to 2020. I recall, for the last few years till 2020, in the Screenshots Forum, it was mostly XP and P3D, and I was the only FSX flag carrier there...🙂...there might have been one or two other FSX users there but not regularly active. There were also occasional DCS and AFS posts there in that period.

The FSX (with due respect to FS9 too), I would say set the (gold) standard of freeware in our (MS) SIM history. It just exploded over several years, as you correctly said. The camaraderie was nothing short of remarkable, IMO. Well-known legends such as (Mike Stone, Manfred Jahn, Milton Shupe, Thomas Ruth, Rick Piper, David Maltby, Dino Cattaneo, Tim Conrad et al.) gave us a continuous supply of (quality) airplanes to fly, long before payware took a solid hold.

Besides the individual contributors, there were also many different so-called groups (or projects) that made significant (freeware) contributions. There were so many freeware liveries, constantly being added to the library, that it was impossible to keep up with. You could find any airline livery and reg., classic or new, if you looked hard enough in the various sites (there were multiple).

As I think back, these folks, did everything out of pure love and passion for the SIM, nothing else. "Enjoy but do not make money of it" was what they would tell us, and it sounded good to me...🙂...

I am sure MSFS is getting there, though as Ryan said, the tools of the trade have vastly changed.

I would say payware is significant and might keep the SIM alive longer, but freeware is the true lifeline of the SIM that builds and sustains the SIM community.

16 minutes ago, P_7878 said:

So, I see, you left FSX in about 2 years. FSX was released in late 2006, and I stayed in the (original) FSX from 2006, till a couple of months prior to the (repackaged) release of the FSX: Steam Edition, in late 2014, I think. I then resumed with FSX: Steam Edition in early 2015 and stuck with it for the rest of my (FSX) journey all the way to 2020. I recall, for the last few years till 2020, in the Screenshots Forum, it was mostly XP and P3D, and I was the only FSX flag carrier there...🙂...there might have been one or two other FSX users there but not regularly active. There were also occasional DCS and AFS posts there in that period.

The FSX (with due respect to FS9 too), I would say set the (gold) standard of freeware in our (MS) SIM history. It just exploded over several years, as you correctly said. The camaraderie was nothing short of remarkable, IMO. Well-known legends such as (Mike Stone, Manfred Jahn, Milton Shupe, Thomas Ruth, Rick Piper, David Maltby, Dino Cattaneo, Tim Conrad et al.) gave us a continuous supply of (quality) airplanes to fly, long before payware took a solid hold.

Besides the individual contributors, there were also many different so-called groups (or projects) that made significant (freeware) contributions. There were so many freeware liveries, constantly being added to the library, that it was impossible to keep up with. You could find any airline livery and reg., classic or new, if you looked hard enough in the various sites (there were multiple).

As I think back, these folks, did everything out of pure love and passion for the SIM, nothing else. "Enjoy but do not make money of it" was what they would tell us, and it sounded good to me...🙂...

I am sure MSFS is getting there, though as Ryan said, the tools of the trade have vastly changed.

I would say payware is significant and might keep the SIM alive longer, but freeware is the true lifeline of the SIM that builds and sustains the SIM community.

For MSFS freeware, that would include FSLTL, AIG, and the FBW A380 and FBW A320. My understanding is that FSLTL and AIG were also available for FSX.  However, did FSX have anything as complex as the FBW A380 and FBW A320 for freeware?

Edited February 22Feb 22 by abrams_tank

11 hours ago, SayAgain said:

What did you get and do you like them?

I have not seen them in the simulator yet. They have been added to my list of around 120 airports that I rotate through on a regular basis.

• France VFR LFKB Bastia Poretta
• IniBuilds ENHD Haugesund Karmoy

5 minutes ago, P_7878 said:

As I think back, these folks, did everything out of pure love and passion for the SIM, nothing else.
I would say payware is significant and might keep the SIM alive longer, but freeware is the true lifeline of the SIM that builds and sustains the SIM community.

It is not really a true comparison between FSX, which remained unchanged from 2008 to the present day
and MSFS, which changes on an almost daily basis.
There were those who took up the FSX mantle and enabled it to do all the things that the Microsoft team
might have done, if they had not been disbanded in January 2009.
Indeed, some were dead set against payware, some found that their lives were taken over by freeware and had to make it pay
and some were lucky enough to have the talent and the time without needing the money.

It is rarely just a simple matter of choice, for example, the MAAM project died as a result of a well-publicised disagreement over whether it should be freeware or payware.

 

Just now, abrams_tank said:

For MSFS freeware, that would include FSLTL, AIG, and the FBW A380 and FBW A320. Did FSX have anything as complex as these freeware add-ons, especially the FBW A380 and FBW A320?

To name but one of so many, the Project Tupolev Tu 154B.
It is a true work of both art and love that can stand comparison with any flight simulator add-on.
AIG cut their teeth on FSX.
The Manfred Jahn/Jan Visser C 47 remains one of the most fully featured freeware addons and
has yet to be matched, either by free or payware.

There are plenty more.

 

I uploaded a scenery for fsx a few months ago and it had nearly 400 downloads. The majority came from simviation. Outside of the US and europe there are tons of countries where hardware is limited and FSX is still the go to simulator. 

22 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

 and I am fighting hard to wait for sales discounts for another three (IniBuilds EGKK London Gatwick 

Have you tried the freeware Gatwick? I don't use it myself but from what I understand it is very good.

I have checked out the freeware version previously, but I think that there were areas of clutter missing where I would want to see stuff. I am very fussy about things like that. Large airports need a LOT of detail to look convincing.

9 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

However, did FSX have anything as complex as the FBW A380 and FBW A320 for freeware?

The answer from my (imperfect) memory, is generally NO, however, with a couple of caveats that come to my mind (see below). Speaking of airliners, my zone of comfort; recall that, in FSX, there were 4 default (aka MS stock) provided a/c: A321, B737-800, B747-400, and the CRJ700. None of them were good for much except testing things, IMO. In contrast, the quality of MSFS default aircraft and airliners, we have, are much superior, no doubt about that.

Now, two freeware contributions distinctly come to my mind from the FSX days.

1. Project Tupolev Tu-154 (FSX), already cited by @Reader above. That was (and still remains) a masterpiece simulation of the iconic Soviet-era, three-engine airliner. I used to regularly fly it, starting Cold & Dark. I don't think there was any "Instant" anything option on that start-up. You just had to wait, for things to initialize and spool up etc. No English labels in the Cockpit either. You needed to memorize which gauges were what, unless you knew Russian. But it was great fun. I think, we'll be hard-pressed to match that simulation in authenticity in MSFS, hopefully so.
2. The other one was "FSX iFly Boeing 747-400".  Actually, it had originated in FS9, if I recall.  These developers are the same ones who gave us now the iFly 737 MAX 8 (extremely well-received, across the board). So, this original iFly (freeware) 747-400 was also a masterpiece simulation for its time. In fact, that was the Boeing simulation that gave me my first impression of what a Boeing FMC/MCDU might actually look and feel like, until PMDG came along later.

Surely, there were others, but these two I recall most.

Regarding Airbus freeware in FSX, since you asked, there was Project Airbus (freeware), they also had an A380, I think, but those were far from being on par with the fidelity of the FBW versions, that we have today.

Cheers...!

Edited February 22Feb 22 by P_7878

8 hours ago, Reader said:

It is not really a true comparison between FSX, which remained unchanged from 2008 to the present day
and MSFS, which changes on an almost daily basis.

That's true.

It was a stable and unchanging in the environment, throughout in FSX, so, the developers (payware and freeware) knew how to develop add-ons for it. But again, that, IMO, led to its downfall.  

An unchanging horizon in our SIM is good for the user-base (and also developers) but is not good for the long-term survival of the SIM...just IMO. This is because the folks up there want to make more money with new things, unless the product is a "cash cow", as is the case for PMDG.  I always wonder why they don't do another Boeing such as the 757, 767, or even the 787...but we don't decide on their strategy...

7 hours ago, Sweetd31 said:

I uploaded a scenery for fsx a few months ago and it had nearly 400 downloads. The majority came from simviation. Outside of the US and europe there are tons of countries where hardware is limited and FSX is still the go to simulator. 

Yes, FSX is still active, I suppose. I just checked that the last post in the (local) FSX/SE Forum was yesterday, 7am. And, surprisingly, the last post into the FS9 Forum was just 51 minutes ago.

So, folks are still using those platforms, no doubt. They must have some personal reasons to do so (nothing wrong with that). However, after full 14 years in FSX, I ran out of reasons for myself, so, I switched to MSFS2020, at the first opportunity via Xbox...🙂...and Game Pass..

I'm set to look to the future of MSFS, no matter the folks up there, decide how often to change the scenery of it, as long as the SIM feels alive. I didn't feel like that in my concluding years of FSX.

Edited February 22Feb 22 by P_7878

And now the PMDG 737-600 is out … I need to retire.

2 minutes ago, SayAgain said:

And now the PMDG 737-600 is out … I need to retire.

Never say never again…it has happened to me a couple of times too…

Along with a nod of respect to (Sir) Sean Connery…🙂…

I need to retire so I can have the time to use 90% of what I bought and it just keeps coming … I’ll never catch-up.

First flight of the MSFS 2024 version of the PMDG 737-600 today (quick circuit of FSimStudios BGGH Nuuk International). As expected, it was a pleasure