March 2Mar 2 Author 2 hours ago, Cognita said: I think taking this to whether MSFS will be sun-setted is a jump too far for me. They just launched a major new version 15 months ago. They just launched on PlayStation! Uhm, they scrapped MS flight about *5 months after release*. We aren't buying that &h^t.
March 2Mar 2 3 hours ago, Noel said: Can you elaborate? How about a range of monthly expenses to give a more quantified view. I can’t estimate the running costs for a gargantuan service like MSFS. but I’m quite familiar with the technical architecture and running costs of significant corporate cloud infrastructures, including those serving large amounts of image-based media. I think the ongoing costs of MSFS are officially known as a “Buttload”. If you need it quantified more than that, there is a free Azure services cost calculator available to anyone with a web browser don't forget to start with the 2.5 petabytes of scenery (there will be a LOT more, but we know for sure about that number). you’ll start to get an idea pretty fast
March 2Mar 2 3 hours ago, Cognita said: This is seeming a lot like 2021! Streaming costs are negligible, particularly for an entity like Microsoft. This is not the 90s anymore. The cost to stream a GB of data is a fraction of a cent. Amazon CloudFront pricing, which we currently use at work, is about 0.085 cents per GB. We are planning a major switch to Azure and anticipate the price to fall. So, no, streaming a couple of hundred GBs of data on MSFS is not even being noticed by Microsoft. Even multiplying that across a million users it is not likely even a rounding error for a department. Azure is one of the largest cloud platforms in the world with over 400 data centers in 70 regions; removing MSFS from their servers does not mean the server is going to be decommissioned. There is really no evidence of anything here, it is idle speculation based solely on changes in patterns of communication. 3 hours ago, Noel said: OMG what a stark contrast to UrgentSiesta's take 🙃 Streaming data IS relatively inexpensive. But there’s a ton more to running the MSFS infrastructure than “streaming”. 🤣 yes, please, DO go on!
March 2Mar 2 4 hours ago, Cognita said: Amazon CloudFront pricing, which we currently use at work, is about 0.085 cents per GB. Pretty sure that should be dollars, not cents, because that's exactly what their publicly quoted rate is.
March 2Mar 2 All this is fun to speculate on, but the simple answer is just that, simple. Microsoft will stop making/updating/releasing FlightSim when it no longer makes them money. Making money is not as simple as just selling copies though. There are various revenue streams that we know of (Marketplace), but there's also some intangible stuff that has a dollar value on it Things that come to mind in 30 seconds of thinking - Unique product, halo product, one of the oldest Microsoft products (yes, this is older than office and windows), deeply associated with the company, showcase for Digital Earth Twin (which has MANY applications), pure marketing benefits.. etc. I'm sure there are many more. Each one of these things has a dollar value associated with it. We do not know the dollar value, MS won't talk about that. But certainly the finance guys at Msft have good estimates for all these intangibles. And thus some of this is offsetting any ongoing streaming costs. Which are all accounting costs in any case, since it's all one company - one side of Msft pays the other side, and they reconcile their budgets. The day they start losing money (more like, they can project they will lose money in X days), they will make changes like subscription models or shutting it down. I think we can be certain they will shut it down / switch to something else at some point, but personally, I think we are safe till 2028. Who knows though! Edited March 2Mar 2 by JonathanC 9800X3d, 4090, 64 GB DDR5 6000 RAM, 4 TB NVME (2x2), 4K Ultra + Framegen
March 2Mar 2 28 minutes ago, KERNEL32 said: Uhm, they scrapped MS flight about *5 months after release*. We aren't buying that &h^t. Flight, however, was a poorly conceived product that really was stillborn, so no surprise to me at all it was cancelled. In fact I never even used it. It was basically competing with FSX that had the whole whole and a lot of third-party support. MSFS 2024. Primary Planes: Black Square TBM850, Duke, Baron, Caravan; A2A Comanche; FSReborn Phenom; Fexix A321; PMDG 737-7, 777: Utilities: Active Sky (Passive Mode); BATC, FSLTL.
March 2Mar 2 Just now, KERNEL32 said: Uhm, they scrapped MS flight about *5 months after release*. We aren't buying that &h^t. I gave up being negative 60 years ago. A positive attitude is way more fun. dd
March 2Mar 2 Some of you are talking like the data centers were built just for MSFS 🤦🏾♂️. Newsflash, they were not. The infrastructure already exists, the staffing already exists. All of it belongs to them. Phil Spencer himself laid out these facts for reasons why streaming makes sense. These are the same arguments used by many to convince themselves that 2020 was going to have a subscription model. We all know how that turned out. I can pay a small fee every month and get access to ALL of the library via streaming. You think MS is going worry about the cost to run MSFS when the sim is making enough money for the CEO to talk about it at investment meetings? Guys, it is incredibly amazing that a delayed dev update in the middle of a shakeup in leadership is enough to get us here lol. 38 minutes ago, KERNEL32 said: Uhm, they scrapped MS flight about *5 months after release*. We aren't buying that &h^t. Keep living in the past, then. Flight was a terrible reboot of the franchise that had cash grab written all over it. It was far removed from what simmers were actually looking for and deserved it's demise after we all voted NO with our wallets. MS has now found a way to give us what we want, while maintaining a healthy revenue stream via the marketplace. 5800X3D. 32 GB RAM. 1TB SATA SSD. 3TB HDD. RX 9070XT.
March 3Mar 3 2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said: Streaming data IS relatively inexpensive. But there’s a ton more to running the MSFS infrastructure than “streaming”. Yes, this is true. I don't want to end up trivializing the cost to operate MSFS, from the data licensing, to storage and replication--it must have a huge CDN footprint--compute, it must be expensive but how that is distributed within Microsoft is an unknown, but it certainly is many millions of dollars per year. MSFS 2024. Primary Planes: Black Square TBM850, Duke, Baron, Caravan; A2A Comanche; FSReborn Phenom; Fexix A321; PMDG 737-7, 777: Utilities: Active Sky (Passive Mode); BATC, FSLTL.
March 3Mar 3 27 minutes ago, Cognita said: Yes, this is true. I don't want to end up trivializing the cost to operate MSFS, from the data licensing, to storage and replication--it must have a huge CDN footprint--compute, it must be expensive but how that is distributed within Microsoft is an unknown, but it certainly is many millions of dollars per year. Isn't it a very small fraction of Azure's capacity so it's not like they can shut MSFS down and therefore save on much in the way of server load? I guess it's more about if there is another use of Azure server bandwidth that promises more RoI than does MSFS that might come into play, some day. Noel System: 9900X3D Noctua NH-D15 G2, MSI Pro 650-P WiFi, G.SKILL 64GB (2 x 32GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000, WD NVMe 2Tb x 1, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 1, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM1000W PSU, Win11 Home, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Case, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Front Edge Sync. Aircraft used in MSFS 2024: Fenix A320, Aerosoft CRJ, FBW, WT 787X, I-Fly 737 MAX 8, Citation Longitude.
March 3Mar 3 Hoping for some news at FSWeekend! MacBook Neo: A18 Pro with 6-core processor and 5-core graphics 8GB Unified Memory, macOS Tahoe, X-Plane 12 (12.40). Mac mini: M4 chip with 10 core processor, 10 core graphics, 16 GB Unified Memory, 256GB SSD, macOS Tahoe, X-Plane 12 (12.40), X-Plane 11 (11.55). Lenovo Legion 5 16IRX9: Intel Core i9-14900HX, 32GB DDR5-4800 RAM, 1TB Micron NVMe SSD, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 8 GB GPU and Intel UHD Graphics 16EU iGPU, Windows 11 Home, MSFS 2024 and 2020, X-Plane 12 (12.40), X-Plane 11 (11.55) and Lenovo LOQ 15 15IAX9: Intel Core i5-12450HX, 24GB DDR5-4800 RAM, 1TB Solidigm NVMe SSD, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2050 4GB GPU and Intel UHD Graphics 16EU iGPU, Windows 11 Home, MSFS 2024 and 2020, XX-Plane 12 (12.40), X-Plane 11 (11.55). Alienware m15 R7: Intel Core i7-12700H, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti 8GB, Windows 11 Home, MSFS 2024 and 2020, X-Plane 12 (12.40), X-Plane 11 (11.55).
March 3Mar 3 4 hours ago, Noel said: Isn't it a very small fraction of Azure's capacity so it's not like they can shut MSFS down and therefore save on much in the way of server load? I guess it's more about if there is another use of Azure server bandwidth that promises more RoI than does MSFS that might come into play, some day. Guys, infrastructure & applications do NOT run themselves. this isn’t like sand on the beach where every grain is interchangeable. And don’t forget that there are also a LOT of biz ops running above the infrastructure, etc, etc
March 3Mar 3 52 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said: Guys, infrastructure & applications do NOT run themselves. this isn’t like sand on the beach where every grain is interchangeable. And don’t forget that there are also a LOT of biz ops running above the infrastructure, etc, etc So when all the biz apps go away we won't be able to sim anymore? Bit of a stretch don't you think? And if you truly think this way, isn't it best to get as much simming done while you can? dd Edited March 3Mar 3 by Sky_Pilot071
March 3Mar 3 9 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said: Guys, infrastructure & applications do NOT run themselves. Just between you and me...I'm pretty sure everyone knows that already😉 Noel System: 9900X3D Noctua NH-D15 G2, MSI Pro 650-P WiFi, G.SKILL 64GB (2 x 32GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000, WD NVMe 2Tb x 1, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 1, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM1000W PSU, Win11 Home, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Case, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Front Edge Sync. Aircraft used in MSFS 2024: Fenix A320, Aerosoft CRJ, FBW, WT 787X, I-Fly 737 MAX 8, Citation Longitude.
March 3Mar 3 1 hour ago, Noel said: Just between you and me...I'm pretty sure everyone knows that already😉 No, apparently not, based on all the exclamations of how inexpensive all this stuff must really be.
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