Have enough AI garbage dont need anymore.

repeat

Edited March 19Mar 19 by mjrhealth

Repeat seems net got to slow 

Edited March 19Mar 19 by mjrhealth

49 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

I also questioned what Asobo brough to the flight sim table other than simconnect!

you didn't say that, did you?

the superb WorkingTitle avionics (you may not have noticed and not used nor need them in your 737) but they are the best in any sim out there for any of the business jets and GA aircraft, x-plane is light years behind in this respect.

55 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Not even close to the other platform performance wise! I can run SEVEN monitor off of one computer in both other platforms and get the same performance I get using one monitor in XP12!

using DLSS 4.5, I can get up to 90 fps in VR on a Pimax Crystal in VR on "the other sim" without "reduce your graphics settings. the sim has run out of VRAM memory" warning in x-plane's VR at much lower settings.

9 minutes ago, turbomax said:

you didn't say that, did you?

the superb WorkingTitle avionics (you may not have noticed and not used nor need them in your 737) but they are the best in any sim out there for any of the business jets and GA aircraft, x-plane is light years behind in this respect.

I was forced to use payware, pmdg 738.

3 minutes ago, turbomax said:

using DLSS 4.5, I can get up to 90 fps in VR on a Pimax Crystal in VR on "the other sim" without "reduce your graphics settings. the sim has run out of VRAM memory" warning in x-plane's VR at much lower settings.

Now try zooming out to a normal distance and take another shot. 

13 minutes ago, Mike_CFII_MEL said:

Now try zooming out to a normal distance and take another shot. 

I confess, fps plummeted down to 83 fps:

E-Jet at EGNT

 

but it gets even worse: down to 79 fps in spot view, Citation X in VR:

DLSS 4.5, Render preset M, Quality

 

down from 180 fps in 2D over London:

so much for "and definitely ahead in performance …" 😀

Edited March 19Mar 19 by turbomax

1 hour ago, turbomax said:

I confess, fps plummeted down to 83 fps:

E-Jet at EGNT

 

but it gets even worse: down to 79 fps in spot view, Citation X in VR:

DLSS 4.5, Render preset M, Quality

 

down from 180 fps in 2D over London:

so much for "and definitely ahead in performance …" 😀

I have it easier than most, I don't have to create a 3D flight deck. So I get a bit of break than most get. Dusk and dawn seem to have the largest impact on performance. 

With that said, I'm running seven monitors and can maintain smooth performance. Not achievable in XP12! If you get 90, add two more monitors into the mix, you're down into the 30s. Now add four more monitors at 1366x768 and XP12 is in the single digits, not flyable.

Edited March 20Mar 20 by Mike_CFII_MEL

5 hours ago, SayAgain said:

Kinda agree with Jay and Steve … JH is just out of touch with the real world.

Sadly the most sane billionaires seem to be ex-spouses. Otherwise this was perfect youtube creator slop. They're all lllying through their teeth on this one. Half way through he has to mumble about how he uses ai regularly with a pitiful 'no haters, bro'.

 

6 hours ago, SayAgain said:

in what sense?

Well what fps does your 5090 get in CP2077 with full pathtracing at 4k with zero dlss assists? No upscaling and no RT helpers. Teens? And when the moon is in the right position? DLSS family is all neural networks of some flavor.

Ideal scenario is photorealism, path traced (no uncanny valley) at 6-8k res and 90-120 hz (accounting for VR at a more tasty FOV). Given current capabilities and Moore's law trend line, I will never see that happen. Pending some miracle fab method for chips. Unless you start to talk neural network. I get the BVH desires but the NN are simply faster and it's improving version-on-version.

The problem is that everyone looks at it like disillusioned tech bros. They poo poo the notion of god-like AGI (for now rightfully so) and forget that the models are still useful on a much smaller scale. Break it down into chunks. With a training set size/quality that effectively covers up the probability nature. It is possible to get there in a convincing way.

The demos nvidia showed were amazing for a 1st gen and additional proof that NN are faster than brute force path tracing. There was no slop aside from that football+net that obviously didn't get trained-in or masked. Everyone had 5 fingers per hand, 2 eyeballs, a nose, and envy-worthy hair (fully shaded!!!). There was no "slop". The underlying 3d geometry is identical in 90% of their press release examples. The other couple characters had to have been tweaked by 3d artists prior to getting the RT treatment because the background geometries remained the same and it all got the RT'd together. 

As for closed source weights? AMD will address that eventually. Or someone will. It won't stay closed forever.

1 hour ago, blingthinger said:

Well what fps does your 5090 get in CP2077 with full pathtracing at 4k with zero dlss assists?

No idea, don't have CP2077 ... not my thing these days.

We'll just have to disagree or more accurately have different preferences.  I don't want probabilistic proprietary processing (NN) when it comes to rendering graphics combined with user input.  I'm firmly in the deterministic camp.  GPUs still have some room to go before they start hitting Moore's law, they're still doubling transistor density every 24 months or less ... power, well AMD seem to be considerably more efficient at the same performance levels so there is room there also.  IMHO, DLSS will fade into obscurity along with 3D movies.

I agree that AI (more accurately ANI) does seem to get a bad reputation with it's media context, but that's primarily a result of AI hype.  I use AI daily, it has "some" benefits and has saved me some time (especially when it comes to coding).  But it's definitely not 100% accurate, sometimes it's just about 25% accurate, sometimes about 85% accurate and sometimes it's 0% accurate.  I have no beef with AI in other areas of computation and research, but it's not AGI, and it's not ASI, it's ANI.  The human race's concern over AI hype would be warranted for AGI or ASI ... but that is still all theoretical.  In the current context of human material, ANI is the least of our worries.

Ultimately both technologies (creating "fake" frames and making the picture more "realistic") have their pro´s and cons.

I could simply show the same frame again, call it "doubling" my framerate and that would be bad. But if I make an educated (and most often correct) "guess" as to what the next frame will look like, then yes, this is a real boost to framerate and visual quality.

Same for making the picture/lighting more realistic. If the AI is good enough to take the base picture and enhance it in a believable way (this is nothing else than the current "hacks" that are getting used to not to have to do real ray-tracing, like SSR, bump mapping, etc.), then yes, it would be a boon. 

The limitation to both techniques comes into play when the AI is asked to create content out of "thin air", to guess something that is not present in the base data. Its like showing a house in a satellite picture, saying "this here is a house, please make a model out of this, so I can see it from the side as well, not only from the top". But there is zero information in the sat picture about the color of the walls, the windows, the door. So the AI will have to come up with something. 

Is that "something" better than nothing at all? Yes. But would it not be better to have real data about the walls and windows? Yes, it would.

So the danger here is that game developers (and Nvidia) take the easy path. Let AI take care of the content creation and "guessing" what the next frame will look like - instead of requiring real data and actual calculations...which can lead to slop, randomized content, made to look "plausible".

Which is - ironically - exactly the same thing that X-Plane´s default "plausible" scenery does right now. The data says "there is a village here" and X-Plane´s algorithm places random houses. They are not the correct houses as per reality (and someone familiar with the village will see that right away), but to someone not familiar with the real village, it will look ok. Same principle as DLSS5.

18 hours ago, GoranM said:

I have an M4 Max, fully maxed out, and a windows pc with a 4060 Super. I do my texture bakes on the Mac now, mostly, but on Windows, when I want some speed, the speed of the bakes completely obliterates the Mac.  It’s not even a comparison. 

Well, yes. From the middle class up, a dedicated GPU will always be faster than the best integrated GPU. Still, Apple has rid themselves of third party suppliers (e.g. Intel) as much as possible and I would be extremely surprised if they backtracked now.

 

15 hours ago, SayAgain said:

...

Kinda agree with Jay and Steve … JH is just out of touch with the real world.

Team Green's bilions of investment in AI must now be justified and pay off at every cost, otherwise there will be tech bros with pitch forks and torches (all reinvented as products for the modern age, but with the exact same function, naturally via angel-invested start up) at their door, demanding his head because their share values are at threat.

 

8 hours ago, SayAgain said:

No idea, don't have CP2077 ... not my thing these days.

You've missed out big time. Some themes discussed and featured in that game are becoming eerily realistic future prospects.

1 hour ago, Bjoern said:

at their door, demanding his head because their share values are at threat.

There will be more than just nVidia shareholders demanding heads with this economy 

As I sit and watch my retirement investment dwindle while the cost of EVERYTHING skyrockets.  Hard to believe JH is so out of touch with the real world ... or is it?

Maybe I need a dose of AI on my investment to make me feel better ... ignorance is bliss approach to life 😉

Edited March 20Mar 20 by SayAgain

The shimmering scenery is a buzz kill. Very noticeable in VR. I'm wondering if they are saving motions vector/AA tech for XP13, which is probably still years away.