Alright lads, going into this weekend with plans to learn up on the DC-3 and coming from mainly flying the 208 and 172 I was feeling less confident with how the tailwheel changes things on take off and landing. My understanding is that tailwheel planes are great at short take offs and landings, bush flying, and acrobatics, whereas the tricycle style, fixed gear or retractable, was more built for distance and speed? 

When I was ready to move up from the 172/VL-3 I briefly tried the Pilatus tailwheel (PC-6 I think?) and I found it challenging to land properly/smoothly. Switched to the 208 after a few flights and stuck with that. I didn't like how you need to touch down while not looking at the runway, as the nose is pitched up when landing on all 3 wheels. I watched a vid on tailwheels that said you need to try to land on all three wheels at once but I feel like I use too much of the runway with I try that, which defeats the purpose of it being better for short field landings. 

In fact, I am skeptical that tailwheels would stop shorter than the VL-3, which I've been able to land on some very short runways and fields. For fun, I even managed to land the VL-3 on the roof of my condo which is not big at all. Aside from stunt landings though - is there a trick to getting the tail of the plane down when landing without pitching the nose up? Is it all really low speed work and I'm just landing too fast?

I'm here to be humbled - what are your thoughts on tailwheel planes? How many of you are out there in one IRL? Any advice/tips?

For MSFS2024 Career mode - tailwheel certification worth it? Can you make money in tailwheel planes?

For GA, and powerful props, tailwheel is my preference, even though MSFS doesn't model all types of tailwheels correctly...

You are missing a third option - anything goes lol

I never flew a taildragger IRL, so my experience only come from sims, FWIW, so take me with a few grains of salt.

I’ve yet to find one for MSFS that handles “as well” as Hi Fi addons in other sims. E.g., the A2A Civ Mustang for P3D, the DCSW warbirds, and SimCoders REP in XP for both the Thranda PC-6 and Default Piper Cub. 

I do stand to be corrected, as always, and now that I think of it, a couple guys around here who DO have IRL experience praise the Piper Cub payware for MSFS as a very good experience. 👍

Ultimately, I prefer flying warbirds in air combat, so that usually pushes me over to DCSW for my taildragger time. YMMV. 🙂🤙

eta: my bush plane action comes entirely in the form of the Kodiak (in both XP and MSFS), Black Square Caravan, and even the A2A Comanche for some dirt strips. 
I like the turboprops simply because they can use Beta & Reverse to help greatly lessen the landing rollout 😎

Edited April 29Apr 29 by UrgentSiesta

2 hours ago, Kristofski said:

My understanding is that tailwheel planes are great at short take offs and landings, bush flying, and acrobatics, whereas the tricycle style, fixed gear or retractable, was more built for distance and speed?

Let's take these one at a time:

Short takeoffs and landings: Not really - there's nothing that would make a tailwheel aircraft inherently better at these.

Bush flying: Definitely - the tailwheel is more forgiving of soft and rough fields than a nosewheel, which can "dig in". The nose-high attitude can also help by increasing prop clearance. That said, there are some excellent tricycle gear bush airplanes.

Aerobatics: Really, the only advantage that a tailwheel offers here is that it has less drag than a nosewheel.

Tricycle gear for distance and speed: If anything, this is more of an indirect effect. Many tailwheel airplanes are designed for short grass strips, so they are also designed for low approach speeds - and that means they're not speed demons. All other things being equal, though, a tailwheel aircraft has less drag than an equivalent tricycle gear aircraft, so it should cruise slightly faster. Retractable gear makes all of this a moot point, of course.

2 hours ago, Kristofski said:

I didn't like how you need to touch down while not looking at the runway, as the nose is pitched up when landing on all 3 wheels.

That's pretty much landing a tailwheel in a nutshell... 

2 hours ago, Kristofski said:

I watched a vid on tailwheels that said you need to try to land on all three wheels at once but I feel like I use too much of the runway with I try that, which defeats the purpose of it being better for short field landings. 

Yes, most tailwheel aircraft are typically landed in the so called three-point attitude. It's also possible to do so-called wheel landings, where you touch down only on the main gear. These will typically consume more runway though. If you find you're using a lot of runway, your approach speed is probably too high.

2 hours ago, Kristofski said:

Aside from stunt landings though - is there a trick to getting the tail of the plane down when landing without pitching the nose up?

Not really - after all, the nose has to go up for the tail to go down.

Most tailwheel aircraft have relatively bad visibility in the touchdown attitude (and when taxing). That's just how it is. They are also inherently unstable on the ground, requiring deft rudder work to keep straight. The tail has an inherent tendency to want to overtake the nose which, if unchecked, will result in a so-called "ground loop".

But the challenge of controlling a tailwheel aircraft on the ground is, for many, what makes up the appeal. It takes practice, so keep at it!

Edited April 29Apr 29 by weaklink

Weaklink actually has a stronglink knowledge about tail draggers! 😉 I just want to add that in some tail wheel aircraft due to long cowling obstructing the view pilot adopted overhead brake landing - meaning pilot flies  runway heading up to around midfield make a circular patter to land so he/she can see runway looking sideways. Among others Corsair first coming to mind !

Edited April 29Apr 29 by sd_flyer

Both. One of each. 

Edited April 30Apr 30 by St Mawgan

For me it is mostly tricycle. Most of my flying is IFR in the 737, so tailwheel is more of an occasional mood thing than a default choice. I enjoy it when I want a slower VFR session, but if I had to pick only one for regular use, tricycle wins on pure convenience.

I have flown a few tailwheel planes IRL.
One particular interesting (and humbling) moment was on Cap10 and a flapless landing on a short field with 13 kt x-wind. 

Ground loop or tipping the nose over. Pick your poison....one puts your wingtip in the grass, the other puts your prop in it. 😄

That said, I prefer tricycle gear simply because I have way more experience on those.

Edited April 30Apr 30 by SAS443

I never fly tail wheels in the sim. I just don't like that you don't have a clear line of sight in the sim without using extra tricks. I am not a RW pilot.

12 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

overhead brake landing

Ah theres something new to learn! Just googled this and looks like it applies to both tricycle and tailwheel, going to have to give this a try in the sim.

12 hours ago, weaklink said:

It's also possible to do so-called wheel landings, where you touch down only on the main gear. These will typically consume more runway though. If you find you're using a lot of runway, your approach speed is probably too high.

This was me for sure - I kept trying to land on the main gear, then brake/reverse thrust to slow down enough that the tail drops, but on grass the braking effect is reduced so it felt like it took forever to stop the plane. I also do not have a good grasp of aerobraking with the elevator, I've seen videos where pilots pull the yoke way back after touchdown for 'aerodynamic braking', but when I try that it always just pitches me up into a bounce off the runway. 

12 hours ago, weaklink said:

Short takeoffs and landings: Not really - there's nothing that would make a tailwheel aircraft inherently better at these.

My impression was that the initial attitude of the frame with tail down creates more lift on the wings during take off so you can get off the ground sooner? Fact or Fiction? Similar to how flaps help in short runways by creating more lift at lower speeds? Or does the tail come up fast enough on take off that that initial angle doesn't make a big difference?

Also - tailwheel lock; should be on for take off and landing so you don't fishtail in the wind; do I have that right? Seems like unlocked is mainly for turning on a dime during taxi?

2 hours ago, Kristofski said:

Ah theres something new to learn! Just googled this and looks like it applies to both tricycle and tailwheel, going to have to give this a try in the sim.

If you wonder how it looks like

This is in SNJ4 right over runway

It looks something like diagram below except we tuned midfield and bank all the way to short final in constant turn

4 hours ago, Kristofski said:

This was me for sure - I kept trying to land on the main gear, then brake/reverse thrust to slow down enough that the tail drops, but on grass the braking effect is reduced so it felt like it took forever to stop the plane.

Yup, as noted earlier, wheel landings are not for short fields.

4 hours ago, Kristofski said:

I also do not have a good grasp of aerobraking with the elevator, I've seen videos where pilots pull the yoke way back after touchdown for 'aerodynamic braking', but when I try that it always just pitches me up into a bounce off the runway.

Yes, that's inevitable. Think about it - when you touch down, the wing is still producing almost enough lift to support the weight of the plane. If you now pull back, you increase angle of attack, increasing lift, and the plane will inevitably lift off again.

So on a wheel landing, you actually want to push slightly after touchdown to reduce the amount of lift produced by the wing and ensure the airplane doesn't lift off again. And then you patiently and slowly fly the tail down onto the ground, as you've described.

When the tail is on the ground, you'll automatically get aerodynamic braking - another reason that three-point landings are preferable on short fields.

4 hours ago, Kristofski said:

My impression was that the initial attitude of the frame with tail down creates more lift on the wings during take off so you can get off the ground sooner? Fact or Fiction?

I would put that in the realm of fiction. Keeping the tail down will increase drag and therefore actually hinder acceleration.

One scenario in which you want to keep the tail low (though off the ground) is on a soft-field takeoff. The increased lift from the wing takes weight off the main gear.

4 hours ago, Kristofski said:

Also - tailwheel lock; should be on for take off and landing so you don't fishtail in the wind; do I have that right? Seems like unlocked is mainly for turning on a dime during taxi?

Yes, tailwheel should be unlocked for taxi, and locked for takeoff and landing.

Edited April 30Apr 30 by weaklink