A few years ago I retired from my job as a Maintenance Engineer with Qantas Link where I was freindly with the engineers in the Qantas Simulator building. On a quiet night shift I would wander over and if there was no pilot training going on I could have my pick of the simulators. I got to fly them all from the old 747 classic and the 747 400 to the 767 and the Dash8 and this is how I rate them.

The old classic was a beast, and the 747 400 was heavy and labour intensive when flown manually. I didn't enjoy it a lot even though I did manage to fly it under the Sydney Harbour Bridge. The distance from the water to the bridge is 161 feet and the height to the top of the tail is about 61 feet. So you have 50 feet below and above to play with if you don't want to take the tail off. A mate did just that and he reckoned the crash didn't stop till Leichhardt some miles away. Try it yourself in the Sim.

The 767 on the other hand flew like a Cessna. I called it the sports car of the big jets. I was riding in the jumpseat of a 767 once and I remarked to the pilot my opinion and he said dead right, there's no better big jet to fly. For a host of reasons of which I won't bother you with here the 767 also happened to be one of my most memorable flights and as I was leaving the cockpit I said to the captain " Thanks for the ride, this is probably the best seat in the house." And he replied "No it's not, this is." And of course he was right.

But the airplane we had the most fun flying was the humble old Dash8. You would know that when pilots are in the sim they're either training or undergoing check rides and they're time limited so they don't deviate from the manual. I however was under no such restrictions and so was able to have some serious flying fun, all with full motion on.

Flying under the Harbour Bridge was easy. Flying under the Harbour Bridge and banking left to continue on and under the Anzac bridge was a little harder. And flying under the Brisbane Story Bridge and hard banking left to avoid the city buildings was very hard and killed us often but it can be done. Landing on taxiway Foxtrot at Kingsford Smith International without crashing through the terminal building usually meant skiming the landing gear over the roof of the International terminal. Sydney simmers should try it sometime. Barrel rolls were no problem and if you could get enough speed up even a loop was possible. One of our favourite tests was to circle the airport at 3000 ft and the other engineer come pilot would unnanounced pull the power levers back to idle and wherever you were over the airport or the city you had to dead stick land the airplane. Those times were such that after landing you had to remind yourself to start breathing again.

Even though you could crash and walk away, with full motion on you treated it as real because if you did crash it threw the sim hydraulics into a fit and the engineers had to come down an reset everything which in the middle of the night did not make them happy. And it was very important to keep them happy.

So in the end it was the Dash8 that we all came back to and thanks to the generosity and patience of the Simulator crew I had some very happy years of learning and fun and got to fly more hours, and do things that the paid pilots could never do in one of the best toy shops in the world.

Great post mate!

When the almost inevitable thread resurfaces asking if MSFS is a game, I’ll refer people back to this post.

As can clearly been seen, a multi million dollar , regulator approved , full motion simulator designed for pilot training can be used as a game.

Likewise ,when I’m next flying I’m going into an airfield in the US that I’ve not been to for about 4 years. So I’ll be firing up MSFS with the appropriate add on airport scenery for a look around to re familiarise myself, and so MSFS is being used as a pilot training simulator.

It’s not the size that matters it’s what you do with it that counts, as the cabin crew say.

Edited Monday at 09:12 AM3 days by jon b

That is a good example of why the game/simulator argument never made much sense to me. The same box can be a training tool one minute and a toy the next, depending on what the person is doing with it.

At home I obviously don't have the motion or consequences, but I still use MSFS that way sometimes: a quick look at a route, airport layout, or cockpit workflow before a planned sim flight. Then another evening it is just for fun. Both can be true.

4 hours ago, malichek said:

That is a good example of why the game/simulator argument never made much sense to me. The same box can be a training tool one minute and a toy the next, depending on what the person is doing with it.

At home I obviously don't have the motion or consequences, but I still use MSFS that way sometimes: a quick look at a route, airport layout, or cockpit workflow before a planned sim flight. Then another evening it is just for fun. Both can be true.

I feel the same.

My story is being so old that when I learned to fly, desktop flight sims were barely past the “Pong” stage, and even then, I had no idea they existed.

When I think back to those days, I would’ve given just about anything for the inexpensive “games” we have available today

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I would’ve become a better pilot, and sooner, if I’d had a modern desktop sim with which to practice.

And if anyone doubts it,show them this use of a desktop “game” and consumer desktop gaming hardware used for IRL pilot training:

*There was a MUCH longer, more in depth video available from Hasard Lee, but it’s unfortunately been made Private.

Edited Monday at 05:39 PM3 days by UrgentSiesta

On 6/1/2026 at 4:11 AM, jon b said:

As can clearly been seen, a multi million dollar , regulator approved , full motion simulator designed for pilot training can be used as a game.

Yep. Back in the day I had a friend who maintained the computers for the flight sims at a major US airline. This was before 9/11, so she was able to invite me over many times to go flying in sims that weren't scheduled for real pilots. Flew the 747-400, DC-9, 737 and 757 many times.

We absolutely treated it as a game. She thought nothing was more fun than to wait till I was about 500 feet above the ground on takeoff before killing 3 of the engines.

Or I'd be coming in for a landing and suddenly find myself in a supercell when it had been CAVU the whole flight. Fun as hell.

And that was back in the early 2000s - I bet they're much better now.

Level D sims are the greatest video games ever made, bar none.

7 hours ago, eslader said:

Level D sims are the greatest video games ever made, bar none

Yes, or instruments of torture, depending on why you’re in there !

@donet , nice story. 👍 It reminded me of the two sessions I enjoyed in the Concorde simulator at Brooklands Museum, 20 miles south of Heathrow. It was used by the trainee pilots at Filton prior to getting into the real one.

There are various packages available and @Pete Dowson and I opted for lunch with two former Concorde pilots and four other paying customers. After a Concorde lunch we walked over to the static simulator.

The options were a circuit out of Heathrow flying under Tower Bridge, departing JFK and flying under a bridge I’ve forgotten the name of before the curved approach and landing on 22L. The other option was the approach and landing onto Rwy 13 at the old Kai Tak, Hong Kong.

I opted for the first two and enjoyed hand flying through the Bridge whilst the Concorde pilot in the right seat handled the throttles. A marvellous experience.

If you or anyone else finds themselves in London a trip down to Brooklands is well worth it. Multiple packages are available but booking for the sim is mandatory.

The software used for Concorde was written by Andrew Wilson known here as @MachTwo . Now working for FS Labs.

Great Post !!!

THX for sharing !!!! Made my week !!!!