some time ago went down the tortuous route of the Carenado PA31 plus the REP pack to get it functional or a functional Piper Navajo in XP12.4 et al. The Carenado PA31 is your basic Navajo that is 6 seats. Then I find lurking but strangely advertised via a livery post what was and is payware and a pure XPlane PA31-250 or Navajo Chieftan - 8 seats now this variety of Navajo was much liked by low level commuter operators all over the globe so got a work out all over. Curious thing is I had no idea that this XP model existed at all until I saw a post on What did you fly today on the org - so it was. Now to buy or not to buy? the modded REP PA31 satisfies my Navajo urge. Price is steep to comes in at about $100 oz $ for me. Ouch. Hmmm curious never saw this one pop up but here it is:

https://forums.x-plane.org/files/file/100913-cis-pa31-350t-chieftain/

Edited Tuesday at 09:36 AM2 days by coastaldriver

There are some developers that you won't find on the .org due to reasons. This one is growing organically (it feels exponential) over their now released 3 Piper models (Seneca, Seminole, Navajo Chieftain PA31-350). It happens in a niche without much marketing and the .org's visibility which is very interesting. Even news outlets and review sites are overlooking it which I think is hilarious ;)

If you are unsure I suggest to join their Discord for screenshots or if you have questions. You'll find very active developers and many happy customers there. There are various videos on Youtube and Twitch as well (search "CIS Chieftain"). It builds on their Seneca/Seminole heritage and you'll find some videos about these as well.

They are not CTRL+E quick start planes. You need to check oil and they have an engine simulation for these turbocharged machines that requires care or you'll quickly practice single engine approaches...

In my opinion, https://www.jetstreamfs.com/ have produced the most immersive, well modeled GA aircraft natively for X-Plane 12 yet. I don't have a motor-aircraft license but those who have say they feel authentic. Their Seneca is used in flight schools.

I am just a simmer but biased because I love Piper cockpits and these are sooo well done ;)

Yes, it is worth it in my opinion.

I have both the Navajo and the Seminole and think they are well worth the money.

I have the REP package for the Carenado and love it.

I have their Chieftain & Seneca and love both. I also utilize the RSG-G5 & TDS GTNXi in both. They have their own updater as well so you really can't go wrong with them..

I guess i was a little burned by the Sud Caravelle by Pilot which I got from him off line to have development drag out over months and months and while it is functional - it seems it just got left midway, Never flown it as a result just gathering dust sp. I take the views here as indicative they are just off org and so no subject to the whims and wimsey of the Org. Fair enough - will give this one a go.

FWIW, they’ve been around awhile and I’ve heard good things about them.

My interests are well covered by SimCoders and AFL, so I’ve not gone further (and sadly, Hot Starts TBM is still MIA 3 years and counting…).

Particularly with SimCoders as they are constantly updating REP and it fairly well covers all of their addons “automatically”. With major updates like the fairly recent v5, they rapidly crank out the per-addon updates.

Well I did bite on this one and purchased it from them. Not managed to get it activated yet - usual dramas there, hate being pushed to Discord for user support and advice, (Pet hate of mine). Looks reakky good so far! Typical Piper.

1 hour ago, coastaldriver said:

Well I did bite on this one and purchased it from them. Not managed to get it activated yet - usual dramas there, hate being pushed to Discord for user support and advice, (Pet hate of mine). Looks reakky good so far! Typical Piper.

will be interested to hear your take.

I’m satisfied with the REP for the Default Baron, but being Default it certainly has limitations like a few inop systems.

Sorry to hear you are having problems. If you really hate Discord, you can write an email and you will be supported as well.

Although it appears to be a counter-rotating prop aircraft, I will NOT invest in ANY prop aircraft for Xp12 while the anti-torque bug doesn't get fixed :-//

For me, I am very sad to have to admit, it's a real show stopper ... Last week I purchased the Skunkcraft P51D for Xp12, went flying it and found me rotating CW at the top of the hammerhead, full power full RPM... No No No !!!

Good news is 12.5 might fix it !!!

Edited Wednesday at 07:27 AM1 day by jcomm

2 minutes ago, jcomm said:

appears to be a counter-rotating prop aircraft

Yes, all of the 3 released models are. Thus there is no critical engine. I like that because you don't need to trim rudder to fly straight.

@jcomm for a hammerhead in gliders I learned the technique to "preload" (slight upwards slip to set the turn direction while pulling up), but I think motor planes don't need it due to enough prop wash over the rudder at the pivot... Interesting to hear that there is a torque bug currently.

Used to call this stirring the porridge- in other words your at a point of maximum control uselessness at the stall wanting it to pivot about the wingtip throuugh 180 degrees and go vertically down - all smoothly? Hmmm need to see what I have in the toy box first to see if JComms bug is a bug or dare I say it? P51 has a lot of forward mass at this point in the turn would have thought it would be tendency to not do a stall turn at all! Got a couple of candidates lets see what gives.

5 hours ago, flightwusel said:

Yes, all of the 3 released models are. Thus there is no critical engine. I like that because you don't need to trim rudder to fly straight.

@jcomm for a hammerhead in gliders I learned the technique to "preload" (slight upwards slip to set the turn direction while pulling up), but I think motor planes don't need it due to enough prop wash over the rudder at the pivot... Interesting to hear that there is a torque bug currently.

Corret @flightwusel ! Loss of rudder effectiveness is something we have to deal with when performing hammerheads in gliders!

regarding the Xp12 "anti torque bug", it has been plaguing the sim since quite a while. LR is working on it, might get fixed for 12.5, or at least prtially fixed (?)

In the meanwhile I continue to avoid prop aircraft in Xp12 because they don't act realistically in as far as prop effects go.

Pick the powerful P51D (Skunkcrafts version for xp12), go straight up to the top of the hammerhead, full power, full RPM, and watch the thing starting to "anti-torque roll" clockwise (?????) due to teh overdone propwash effects calculations that create way too much lift from the port wing. It's even more evident in twin props, non counter rotating.

I believe 12.5 will hopefully fix it 🤞

Not sure if it's still just in the rumour mill, but CIS' next one could be a Cheyenne 400 - which is when their portfolio will get truly interesting for me.

16 hours ago, coastaldriver said:

I guess i was a little burned by the Sud Caravelle by Pilot which I got from him off line to have development drag out over months and months and while it is functional - it seems it just got left midway, Never flown it as a result just gathering dust sp. I take the views here as indicative they are just off org and so no subject to the whims and wimsey of the Org. Fair enough - will give this one a go.

You always have experiences completely opposite to mine. Even at version 0.34, the entire aircraft is a 100% functional and authentic masterpiece already, almost on par with Felis' 747. I have zero problems flying it.

Rico is an IRL pilot and paused development (and his Patreon, which is very fair) for left seat training at his airline.

Edited Wednesday at 02:00 PM1 day by Bjoern