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monnie

What has happened to these forums over the years ?????

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I don't post in the forums as much as I used to, I do a lot of looking and finding answers. It seems as of around the release of FSX (time frame) people have really been quick to be nasty in here. Is it because of a younger age group or what, but it's really disappointing. I just read a thread where a developer wrote a comment about HIS product to the OP of the thread and he got attacked by an individual who had nothing more to say then just to post a mean comment. I guess I can't blame developers for not posting, helping or anything for that matter when they are attacked like this. And then people wounder why PSS and some other companies have closed shop. I started simming MSFS back in the early 90's and it seems as people were so much nicer and you could ask a question or post a comment about anything without fear of getting attacked. I fully understand that everyone has the right to an opinion but sometimes you should just keep it to yourself if you have nothing to say about the topic at hand.That's all, just posting my thoughts because I have the right too. ;)Dan

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Ive only recently began posting here but i have used this site for over a year now for my troubleshooting problems and the many great tips and tricks ,and have always thought it to be one of the friendliest sites Ive found.It is a refreshing change to have replies to your questions rather than "read the faq" ,"read the manual" or "dont you know how to use Google?"I do agree that occasionaly some posters do come across as abrupt ,but I really do think they are in a very small minority here .Perhaps they should remember that good manners come as freeware!Well thats my two pence (or cents) worth Mark

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Mark, You are correct, this is one of the best (friendly) forums around. When I read comments like what I read in another thread i get upset. Main reason is the person it was directed at. He's one of the, I did say one of not to exclude the others, best forms of help here and is always willing to step in and give a helping hand, if you will, whenever needed. Plus the pure fact that this person had nothing to add except a nasty comment.Dan

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I agree. A lot has to do with the anonymity - hiding behind a keyboard allows people to post or say things that would not be said in a face to face situation - to be bolder than they are in real life, as some vicious posters would not like the outcome were they to face the people they verbally attack.David

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Anonymity and the sheer numbers of new FS users now on the net. Back in the day when we first started these forums, things got real political and nasty. We cracked down, set some rules, and things got nicer. All with a membership of between 10 and 15 thousand. Now we are substantially over 40,000 users and many are new to the hobby. We have expanded our ADMIN volunteer staff here to monitor and enforce our policies. When you see an objectionable message, hit the alert key and in doing so, you help us to keep the "nastiness" out and the good in.

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The internet was relatively new back in the days you've spoken of and people still had some residual "face to face" manners back then before the anonymity of the internet came along and messed that up. Also computers were expensive so it was cost prohibitive for every kid to have one in his bedroom. I love the internet, don't get me wrong, but I'm afraid it's going to get a lot worse unfortunately.Jim

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The replies are all correct in how things have changed and I guess that's a reality that we have to face and live with. As I said some things just hit a nerve with me and I feel the need to "speak". Thanks for the tip Tom, I forgot about the alert button.Dan

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>>"And then people wounder why PSS and some other companies have closed shop":)Jeff

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Part of the problem is that people who are no longer active on the forums or even in FS taking sides and fueling a particular side of a debate, would you not agree with that?

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Criticism and just being a jerk, are two different things. Being a jerk and being nasty is what has caused a lot of developers, payware and freeware, leaving these forms, not criticism.Dan

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I know this was a shot at me, and all I can say is "whatever". Beside it's not a debate that ###### me off, it was someone being a jackass that caused me to create this thread. Dan

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The large user base increased the likelihood of forum users that do not behave like the typical real-world pilot does. One view, if not the main, of these forums is of virtual pilots helping each other enjoy the flight simulation hobby. Answering questions, no matter how many times the question has been asked, sharing knowledge that could help others maximize their enjoyment, and trading experiences in an atmosphere that reflects our personal pilot-type attitude is what we hope to see in these forums.Best regards,Dave Vega

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I agree Dan. I got into simming around '01, and the online community now is way different from what it used to be, and not in a good way.I realized that a little after the release of FSX, the situation worsened. FSX just seems too much of a "game" than a "simulation," which in turn has attracted a few of those with short tempers and even lesser respect. It's sad no doubt.

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I fully agree with that statement. I really wish they would have left it on a simulation scale rather then try to make a game of it. I remember when FS first went multiplayer and opened a "gameroom" type area. It was as bad as some of the open servers for racing sims. A bunch of kids slamming around ruining it for the serious simmers. I went online once with it and never went back. Same with the racing sims. Took me a long time to find a good online team that raced in a simulation type manner. That's why I'm very happy with how sturn Vatsim is. It's fun, but it's for simulation not palying games. Dan

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I got into simming also in '01 also-1981 that is. :-)I find also when individuals express their own opinions as opinions things stay civil. When individuals speak their own opinions as if they are fact, and speak for the simming world at large the tempers flare. That goes for either side of an opinion.http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Good points Dan...But we should also consider the following to:We have here a very mixed environment from adults / children all enjoying aviation... To add more a lot of different native languages too...So communication in real life is difficult enough in the same native language...Forums have actually more the nature of miscommunication or understanding since we all have to type and express our feelings for a lot of users in a foreign language...What polite or respect is in one country is maybe very impolite or disrespectful in the other...Just some thoughts to add to your points...We have I believe the common factor of passion for aviation...I try always to read the topics a bit more with the above points in my mind...The Net is changing indeed if you compare it for example 1994 and 2008...Have fun in the (virtual)skies :-)http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/awf1/sign.jpg

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>>I find also when individuals express their own opinions as opinions things stay civil. When individuals speak their own opinions as if they are fact, and speak for the simming world at large the tempers flare. That goes for either side of an opinion.Reminds me of a certain someone that I had it out with on the forums many times. His way was always the correct way. He was a genius, everyone else was a complete moron. If he wasn't attacking me, I knew before reading one of his post he was flaming someone else. Eventually he just went away. I think he posts here once in a while, but for the most part, the old #### went away. As for vatsim, thats when I left msn's "zone." It was fun to go in there every now and then and just play chicken with about 15 other people at Meigs, but that was fun only for so long. Vatsim is very professional. No kid who wants to just play his "airplane video game" would survive long enough to start the taxi. There's one "annoyance-free" place where the maturity level of the pilots will never go down.

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>I know this was a shot at me, and all I can say is>"whatever". Beside it's not a debate that ###### me off, it>was someone being a jackass that caused me to create this>thread. >DanFirst of all, I share your concerns 100%. However, I hope you won't mind me using this post as an example,Dan.When I read the posters comment, I did not see it as a rub against you directly. In my mind he was offering a truizm of many perpetrators of flame.As has been brought up many times before, we are a large , World Wide community, and our languages sometimes causes problems. In some peoples minds, the term, "whatever" is considered a dismiss of that person and an attack upon his existance, when as if feel in your case you actually said"...I'm not going to let your statement bother me, nor am I going to allow it to cause me to respond in a negative way."I have some concern when people in these forums feel tat there is am implied "right" to say anything. Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking, but though I am a member here, I don't own this site or this forum. For me to be allowed to do anything within AVSIM is a "privilage" and not a "right". The fact that individuals feel that they have a "right" here also contributes to the feeling that they can get away with whatever they want and if recourse is taken, somehow, it is a violation of the Constitution.You guys hve bought up some good points in this discussion and I enjoy the conversation. But, it is not only in this forum where the problem exists, which is unfortunate. Is it an "age"thing? I don't think so. I see, so called "adults" acting up worse than our younger members and therefore set the poorest examples.In my mind, as long as we have people who choose not to argue a point to satisfy their ego and would rather stop, or just remain quiet versus piling on to be, "on the right side", we'll do alright. For now, I refuse to let someone steal my enjoyment of this hobby of our's.We have to many good people that have the answers I need and I know they are watching and waiting for that one person who really needs, or wants the help. And they make themselves accessible via PM or email. So, when I see their name I read and hang on every word and skip the bull of the "wanna be's".Dan, I thank you for bringing up the subject and I hope that I have not offended you by using your post as an examole.LaMonte CrenshawBest regardsJan1,KINDWhen I push the button and it works, I'm happy:-)HP Media CenterPentium D 2.80 GHz Duel core2.00 GB RAMNVIDIA GeForce 6200SEConexant Falcon II NTSCXP SP2

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