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january

737-800 Range

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This is a question for the real pilots out there. I was flying the 737-800 in FSX on a flight from Miami to Los Angeles. I noticed that from my fuel consumption, I was not going to make it to Los Angeles with the fuel I had remaining.I know that American Airlines flies the 737-800 on the Miami-Los Angeles route so it does have the range to make the flight. My plane was fully loaded and I was flying at FL320. My question is can a fully loaded 737-800 make it from MIA to LAX or is AA flying the plane with less than a full load? Or are they flying at a higher flight level which is more fuel efficient or do I just have lousy flying skills?

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>I was>flying the 737-800 in FSX on a flight from Miami to Los>Angeles. Which 737 was it? Definitely not PMDG's. The degree of realism alone in this simulation could account for big differences in fuel burn, I would have zero faith in the stock 737 out of the box in this regard. In a real FMC equipped aircraft pilots constantly adjust altitude (per FMC's recommendation) to fly at the optimum flight level - when aircraft gets lighter because of spent fuel you should climb higher and it sounds like you were stuck at the same altitude for the duration of your cruise. Also the speed is modified accordingly - long range cruise speed changes constantly, again FMC would tell you what speed to fly (the heavier you are the faster you should fly). Also flying in the westerly direction you are flying against the wind - airlines have a way to compute so called wind optimal route. As you can see there are many, many factors here that could make your virtual trip in FSX far from real.Michael J.http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9320/apollo17vf7.jpg

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WestJet operates 737-700s at FL 400, even on a short hop such as CYVR-CYYC. They also fly CYYJ-CYYZ (Victoria-Toronto) with pretty substantial loads. WestJet also offers Canada/Carribean or Hawaii service with these aircraft. I'm not positive but I think I've read that they also have some 800's.Alex Reid

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With the winds they are right now, you'll need to stay low anyway - that, and because of the fuel load is why AA is filing for FL340. You're going to need around 40,000 lbs to make that trip at FL340, so you'll be loading over 41,000 lbs. Considering max fuel load it around 46K, that's pretty heavy. They'd have to be payload limited. It ain't fun flying west bound for long distances.

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Westjet as -700's and -800's. Flight levels are generally high, FL400 and FL410 at least when I have flown them from YYZ to Calgary/Vancouver/Winnipeg. I think Westjet was looking at flights to Britian from Halifax at one point.Mark.

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I've been told that the longest commercial Boeing 737 ops in the world are between Panama City and Buenos Aires, a distance of 2,871 nm.Miami-Los Angeles is a mere 2,348 nm :)That's not counting BBJ's, who can probably go much further.RhettE8500, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64

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I have seen Lufthansa Boeing 737-700s and 737-800s fly from New York to Germany without running out. I think the default FSX flight model is screwed up. I used a professional fuel calculator, and ran out of fuel while taxiing to the gate. If there is a way to adjust the fuel consumption in the model, I would be glad to know.

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>I have seen Lufthansa Boeing 737-700s and 737-800s fly from>New York to Germany without running out. I think the default>FSX flight model is screwed up. I used a professional fuel>calculator, and ran out of fuel while taxiing to the gate. If>there is a way to adjust the fuel consumption in the model, I>would be glad to know.I think the Lufthansa flights you are referring to are the Business Class only service which can make the flight from New York to Germany due to a smaller number of passengers and lower payload.In my example, American uses a regularly configured passenger 737-800 to fly from Los Angeles to Miami and back. I don't think a regularly configured 737-800 with full payload would be able to fly nonstop from New York to Germany.

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>I have seen Lufthansa Boeing 737-700s and 737-800s fly from>New York to Germany without running out. I think the default>FSX flight model is screwed up. I used a professional fuel>calculator, and ran out of fuel while taxiing to the gate. If>there is a way to adjust the fuel consumption in the model, I>would be glad to know.Look at the aircraft.cfg file, specifically for fuel_flow_scalar valueExperiment with this.RhettE8500, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64

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MIA-LAX is at the edge of max range.Today's flight plan for PMDG 738 winglets with RW fuel figures:Routing:SID WINCO J43 ROGAN J86 SRQ Q100 LEV J86 JCT J15 INK J4 EWM J184BXK J4 MESSI J104 PKE J4 TNP STAR TTL 2061 NM plus 10 NM for SID/STARTTL FLT TIME 05:05 W/C -20ZFW : 130.8 klbs/ 59.3 Kgs ( 175 Pax plus bags )eLDGW : 141.2 / 64.0eFuel : 42.5 / 19.3 ( incl. taxi )eTOW : 172.7 / 78.3eBurn : 31.5 / 14.3eFuel at dest : 10.3 / 4.7 with altn. KSANInitial FL : 320 at JCT step climb to 340

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I'm not sure why you are using FLs 320/340. Realworld WestJet operates their 737-700s around FL 400 - even on short hops like CYVR-CYYC (376 NM). Since WestJet is consistently profitable, I wonder if fuel economy at higher FLs makes the difference.Have a look at some of their flights on Flight Tracker. On the YVR/YYC shuttle run they are at FL 400 cruise for only about 20 minutes!! This with a nearly full all Economy (Coach) load .Alex Reid

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Hi Alex,accdg. to RW planning charts - european operator of 738W - such a heavy aircraft can only climb to FL320 for opt. altitude. You cannot compare a 350nm trip with more than 2000nm. . .the 73G is much lighter!The required fuel for the trip is MORE than the payload in weight!One of the reasons for the success of low-cost carriers (in Europe) is that they fly mainly flights below 2 hrs flight time!Karl-Heinz - EDDI/THF " Tempelhof "" The mother of all airports " - Sir Norman Fosterhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg

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Examples from the weekend:Sat 05:35PM EDT AAL397 KMIA KLAX B738/Q 34000 WINCO1 WINCO J616 SRQ Q100 REDFN PEKON CLL LOWGO EWM Q2 HOBOL KA21M PSP PDZ PDZ4Sat 06:45PM EDT AAL456 KMIA KLAX B738/Q 34000 WINCO1 WINCO J616 SRQ Q100 REDFN PEKON CLL LOWGO EWM Q2 HOBOL KA21M PSP PDZ PDZ4Sun 05:35PM EDT AAL397 KMIA KLAX B738/Q 36000 WINCO1 WINCO J616 SRQ Q100 REDFN Q105 HRV J58 AEX NOBBL J58 FUZ KF24Y KA27S HIPPI J10 TNP SEAVU1

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Hi Karl-Heinz: I recently flew WestJet realworld CYYC-CYYZ, a trip of about 1500 nm. The 737-700NG was about 75% full in an all Economy/Coach seating config. The FL was 400/390 both ways for an each way trip of about 1500 nm.Alex Reid

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Addendum to my prior: WestJet has a daily Victoria/Toronto B737-700NG Flight # 706.1851 nm - 4h 38m non stop. Today's flight is scheduled for FL390 according to Flight Tracker.---------- Flight 706 departed on time and reached Cruise 390 about 45 minutes later per Flight Tracker.This will be all Economy(coach) seating. WJ does not offer Business nor First Class. WestJet currently reports an overall load factor in the 75% range.At time of writing, 706 is E bound on the S edge of the 49th parallel, about to enter Idaho, maintaining FL390. Alex Reid

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2nd Addendum- watching the progress of Flight 706, I realize he (she?) is flying a Great Circle route over Washington, Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin etc. No more airways routings for Westjet! My guess is this will save possibly 150 miles over a conventional "airways" routing. No wonder they use FL390/400!Anybody know how I would program the CDU for Great Circle nav over North America ?Alex Reid

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Are you sure they are using Great Circle? Sometimes it looks like GC but they are actually using airways.RhettE8500, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64

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>2nd Addendum- watching the progress of Flight 706, I realize>he (she?) is flying a Great Circle route over Washington,>Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin etc. No>more airways routings for Westjet! >My guess is this will save possibly 150 miles over a>conventional "airways" routing. No wonder they use FL390/400!>Anybody know how I would program the CDU for Great Circle nav>over North America ?>Alex ReidNothing terribly amazing about that, if traffic allows, the controller can always give a you a "direct" somewhere way down the line. That will in essence be your great circle across the continent. You don't need to special program the CDU for it. All you have to do is takeoff from Vancouver and then hit Direct YYZ in your PMDG FMS. You'll knock yourself out great-circling for the next five hours.

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Kevin/Rhett- You see when you get old you get dull! Of course, plug in Direct To whatever, for a GC routing!! Thank you.In this case, the routing was- HUH J534 IWACK GGW DLH TIBUD J525. My old High Level chart shows no airway -IWACK to GGW nor DLH nor TIBUD.Clearly WestJet picked these wpts as an approximation of GrCir- and with the approval of ATC and the FAA!! I believe that the entire WestJet fleet (all 737NGs)is nav equipped for RNAV.Thanks for the insights.Alex Reid

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>Kevin/Rhett- You see when you get old you get dull! Of>course, plug in Direct To whatever, for a GC routing!! Thank>you.>In this case, the routing was- HUH J534 IWACK GGW DLH TIBUD>J525. My old High Level chart shows no airway -IWACK to GGW>nor DLH nor TIBUD.>Clearly WestJet picked these wpts as an approximation of>GrCir- and with the approval of ATC and the FAA!! >I believe that the entire WestJet fleet (all 737NGs)is nav>equipped for RNAV.>Thanks for the insights.>Alex Reid>Well there are relatively new RNAV routes that are nice and and long with little need to change directions.In the US they are called Q and T routes instead of the original J routes.

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Hi all,I thought the topic was range of the 7 3 7 - 8 0 0 ??The B737-700 is a rather different airplane. . . much lighter with more or less the same engines ( although derated for the 700 . . . ),but in any case much more powerful in relation to size of aircraft.I have no RW planning charts for the 700, but alone the time to Fl390 of 45 minutes is selfexplanatory - the 800 needs about 20 mins at max tow to FL 320 - another 25 mins for 7000 ft at climb power needs most probably more fuel than a step climb later on?Flight tracker is a nice tool. . .but not always the reality. They use the f i l e d flight plans and you all know that in reality the flight might use other routes accdg. to ATC. . .On a flight from EDDF to KDFW my son ( CP MD11 ) got a routing over Northern Canada DIRECT to BYP for a BONHAM5 arrival. . . direct routings over the North American continent are common - much better for the fuel economy than flying always at MAX altitude. . .and much better than in Europe! Karl-Heinz - EDDI/THF " Tempelhof "" The mother of all airports " - Sir Norman Fosterhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg

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Karl-Heinz: FWIW- This info from Airliners.net -737-800 - Standard range with 162 passengers is 1990 nm OR 2940 nm for high gross weight version. Typical cruising speed Mach 0.785. Max certificated altitude 41,000 ft. Max single class seating for 189. High gross weight max takeoff 174,200 lb.Alex Reid

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