ACA857

Wasn't my intention to re-start the 2D / 3D debate, sorry. That ship has sailed, PMDG made a business decision that some disagree with. As many have suggested, it would be nice to have a 2D option for those who prefer it and not have to deal with 'workarounds' or 3rd party perpherals. The 2D was so well executed on the 737NGX, and in cruise, IMHO, the 3D is nice to have as an option when you want to look out the window from a more realistic viewpoint. I agree, having the full panel on a 2D view is not 'more realistic', but I am suggesting it is more practical for flying a desktop using 2D monitors as the medium. I have not read the 1000's of posts on this topic so I don't fully understand the reasoning why PMDG decided not to develop a 2D for the 777, but it's never a good idea to limit options with software unless the cost to develop those options would outweigh the revenue gained. Rob.

Devil's Advocate: So I am on a short final, AP OFF, yoke in one hand, throttles in the other...I notice an amber or red flag on the EICAS but I can't read the message or numbers clearly without switching views or moving my viewpoint. Short final is not a great time to be pressing buttons, using the hat to move my eyes, or zooming in on a piece of a 3D panel. I love PMDG products, but flying with a 3D panel on 2D monitors is not working for me as it greatly detracts from the realism. I'll stick to the 737NGX :-)

Hi Dave - I was wondering why you have your option setting for Destination set to false...what benefit does that have?

Dave: ForceDestinationWeatherZone = False....wouldn't this cause destination weather to be innaccurate even when flying with a flight plan in ASE? The destination wxr would be blended with surrounding wxr stn data and could update on approach (as ASE would not 'lock' to the flight plan destination) causing additional issues? Thanks. Rob Hall.

Ticket submitted. Referenced this thread in the ticket. Will keep yous posted. #FKN-725-51349

i guess I'll create a ticket :-)

ASE - do I need to create a ticket for this previously reported issue?

I do use DWC. I will try disabling graduated visibilty. Should the Fog Layer option be enabled or disabled?

Ok, so I am not alone and not technically crazy :-) In FSUIPC I have suppress turbulence and variance enabled, with wind change limit set to 2kts/second and barometer smoothing also enabled at the default values. If I set all WXR OFF in FSUIPC, I get the "S" turn problem with PMDG, FSL Conc, and LDS 767 aircraft. I tested with enhanced route and additional stations OFF. With low OVC 2-300 feet it was seconds before touchdown I would get a windshift or seconds after touchdown. It's driving me crazy...it's a short drive. Hopefully someone can point to some variable or setting that could be tested in ASE / FSUIPC / FSX. I see you had all wxr off in FSUIPC Kyp, but I also know FSUIPC does all kinds of stuff with ASE weather data...would not be surprised if the problems were a combo of ASE and FSUIPC. Happy landings. PS - Still have fond memories of you and Mr. Scanlan at VATSIM YYZ many moons ago. So much wine, so little time.

I've had the same issue intermittently over the years....seems to me it depends on the weather, in particular...days with low overcast seems to inhibit or interfere with the update of arrival airport weather. I was excited to see Kyp post above and changed settings in ASE to Kostas recommendations. Although Kyp seems to have resolved, not so here and with other posters I can see. I was flying around Boston, St. Johns (with ADV INTERPOLATION noted in METAR), and Halifax over the weekend with 2-300ft OVC and strong winds all day in the METAR...I can reproduce the same failure to update destination weather *everytime* as follows (as long as the lowest cloud layers is below 3000'): Winds and visibility will NOT update until flying below the lowest cloud layer to the surface. For example, KBOS had OVC at 300 and VIS less than 1/2 mile all day on Saturday. On approach, once I got below 300 feet (reported OVC) I was getting a dramatic wind and visibility shifts. I repeated this four or five times Sometimes as late as the flare or on touchdown, winds would update to the correct airport weather...exactly what Kyp is reporting. I did a few more tests, this time at around 1000' AGL I got ###### the weather is not updating (I can see the field clear as day just as in Kyp's pictures above where it should be a white-out), I pressed the AI Refresh button and blammo...weather changes to correct DEST AIRPORT weather. So at least I have a work around. Repeated this work around a few more times in Halifax and result is consistent. I also re-did Kyp's circuit test...took off with correct weather, flew 90 miles away from the airport and returned, again weather not updated on final approach until I hit the AI refresh. I do understand surface vs. winds aloft, I highly doubt the wind at 350 feet AGL is dramatically different from the wind at 250 feet AGL. I don't want to suggest where the problem lies, but there does seem to be a correlation between lowest cloud layer and destination airport weather updates not happening correctly. I don't recall ever seeing a problem with destination airport weather where the lowest cloud layer is above 3000' AGL. The problem is noticed in 'low' cloud or IMC only in my experience. Your 'average' normal weather day, ASE updates arrival weather without an issue. Is it possible something in the latest FSUIPC is not set right or causing a problem suppressing wind/vis updates OR depiction while in or near cloud? Is there a possible issue within ASE itself where is is not resetting weather below 3000' AGL when cloud or low OVC is reported? I use: FSX, latest ASE SP, latest FSUIPC, no addons - FSX and ASE (with plan filed everytime) only apps running. Flew tests with 737NGX and LDS767. I will continue to 'Refresh AI aircraft' before landing as a work around. Would be nice if there was a fix. Rob Hall - ACA856.

May be unrelated to what you are asking for...but for a few bucks you can get FSBuild...import real world flight plans and ASE weather (plans care of FlightAware.com) into FSBuild, then use the CO RTE line in the FMC to import the FSBuild created plan. Using the performance file for a 737-800 in FSB and ASE weather, you will be amazed how close to predicted time and fuel burn it can get. Rob.

He looks like Jimmy Carter...maybe he is Jimmy Carter? :-) Rob Hall.

How did this become the Opus support forum? :-) Rob Hall.

I've met a couple guys at FDS and they built a good share of the sim I work with on occasion. Their hardware is excellent! I'll have to sell my wife off in order to afford it :-)

you will notice the aileron movement and spoiler movement coincide...as previous posters have explained, roll control.

This issue has been discussed several times here before, and I submitted a ticket about it shortly after release...it's the only real issue I have with the NGX but it is irritating. I balance this out with how well everything else works and live with the workarounds. After touchdown, you either have to toggle the throttles to get GND idle before the reversers will operate...or press F1/F2 once you are on the ground. The change from APP to GND idle does not happen with touchdown as IRL, you need to do one of the above in the NGX. Many a high-speed turn off can be missed with manual braking...but if you are using Auto-brake properly, it will keep the rollout distance close to the RW numbers with or without the reversers. FSX does not simulate poor braking / ice conditions, so reversers become less important IMHO. It would be nice for a future SP if PMDG could consider including some logic to have GND idle coincide with gear / strut compression which I am told is how it works IRL. Rob Hall.

"or when the air/ground safety sensor is in the ground mode." - I thought that sensor was in the main gear when it compresses, the sensor is closed? Regardless, holding down the F2 key really should not be required to speed up achieving GND Idle power / activating reversers - my hardware has throttles # 3 and # 4 mapped to reversers via FSUIPC which works great with non-PMDG aircraft...don't have this problem with the PMDG B744 either using the lower tab of all 4 throttles mapped to reverse thrust, I understand it's a different aircraft...still.

...and holding down the F2 key at 10ft AGL in the flare is not really a solution IMHO, it is a good work around however. If some coding could be done to get the engines from FLT idle to GND idle *triggered when the main gear touches down (compresses)*, that would be a solution, not a work around. There have been several posts on this, I have also opened a ticket many moons ago shortly after initial release. I don't recall the answer I got, if this was an FSX limitation or some other issue. I recall someone quoted the Boeing manual to me as well in regards to a 2-5 second delay from main gear touchdown to GND idle being achieved. I did not verify that statement, but I can tell you IRL that GND idle power is commanded and achieved almost immediately after the main gear is down, you should be able to get the reversers (doors) active by the time you gently get the nose gear down....all other things equal and all that :-) A look at any youtube or FL350 video of 737NG landings will verify this to be true. Rob.

I hope this thread dies soon! Argue whatever you like, it boils down to this in my mind... There are a considerable number of PMDG customers who would like a 2D panel option for the 777. As PMDG has decided not to provide a 2D option, then people are welcome to vote with their wallets. It's not about what's 'better' or 'more realistic', it's about giving people options (or not) from a service and customer satisfaction point of view. Rob.

"Plenty of pilots still use multi-monitor cockpits and undock 2D panels to fit on each screen, creating a simpit made up of just monitors. Cheaper then a real simpit, and more immersive then 1 screen and a 3D VC." That pretty much sums it up for me, without a 2d option, anyone who is using multiple monitors with 2d displays... I did not really want to debate what is better, more to the point was to lobby PMDG to give the users an option to use 2d or 3d, not simply abandon 2d altogether. It's a business decision in a 'free world' economy, we are all welcome to vote with our dollars. Rob.

It is totally different...I have most pop up 2D panels mapped to buttons on the Saitek yoke except fire control, lower main, etc...so no need to move my viewpoint / eyes to the area I need to get to (which is my biggest beef with VC). For example, from the main forward 2D, I can pop up the radio stack with one mapped button click on the yoke, click a switch, and be back on the main forward panel looking out the front window within 1-2 seconds or less. I have the pop up radio stack moved to the right half of the screen so I always maintain forward vision while the pop up panel is displayed. Consider this next time ATC tells you to tune to tower on short final for a late clearance while you are hand flying. In 3D you have to first move your eyes down to the pedestal (so you are not looking forward anymore, very dangerous on short final - yes I realise the PNF would do this, but again, I am in my boxers in the basement), zoom in on the tuner, change the frequency, move your eyes back out the front window...it is way faster with a pop up from the main forward 2D and you don't give up the view out the window to look at the tuner setting. On the main forward 2D panel itself, I am able to click / switch buttons with a mouse click, no need to zoom in or re-size. I have the pop ups set to not impede my direct forward vision out the window except for the overhead panel which I rarely need in critical phase of flight. I understand the perspective is not 'real' in a 2D main forward panel view, the VC gives a wider view of the panels and more periferal (which I could argue is equally unrealistic - it is also hard to read instruments without zooming in, also unrealistic). In my view, the end game is the ability to quickly and clearly read a gague or display without having to zoom in, flip a switch without having to scroll my view to the required panel - all the while maintaining my eyes looking out the front window. I could go on about the merits and pitfalls of 2D vs. 3D, end of the day it is all about user preference and it is always nice as an end-user to have OPTIONS to use a 2D or 3D environment. Rob.

Please for the love of God and all things holy; PMDG please provide a 'full time' 2D main forward / MCP panel at least. I am not alone in my dislike of VC / 3D for the critical stages of flight. It's just too awkward to move the eye, zoom in, read a gauge, flick a switch in the VC when said switch needs to be flicked in less than a second or two....while trying to hand fly a landing / takeoff. If you care at all about providing a realistic flight deck desktop simulation experience, please provide a 2D panel same as with the NG 73X. I understand the demand for VC panels, they look pretty and provide a different perspective, great for in cruise, taxi, sight seeing, etc....but I am not in a real flight deck, I am sitting in my office viewing the flight deck on a 2D monitor...a 3D/VC panel does not change that, never will. Please, I am begging you :-) I am only one of many who will not buy without a 2D flight deck option. Rob Hall.

I have not been outside since October 2011 :)

I have a Saitek 7 lever throttle quadrant...this is what I have done. 1. Delete the throttle axis assignment in FS. 2. Spend some time with the FSUIPC manual and get levers 1 and 2 calibrated to throttle engines 1 and 2...GND idle to FULL power. 3. Calibrate levers 3 & 4 to move idle to full reverse thrust and don't invert/reverse the signal...in other words, levers 3 & 4 stay in the full forward position calibrated to GND idle. When I pull back / retard levers 3 & 4, they incrementally reverse thrust from idle to full reverse. Levers 3 and 4 then mimick the motion of real world thurst reversers. 4. Calibrate the buttons as you wish...for me, I have the throttle buttons set to Xpndr mode C / OFF, AT arm, TOGA engage, Gear up/down, ENG 1 & 2 Fuel swithces. The only time I have to use the keyboard is immediately after touchdown - I press F2 a couple time to get the engines to ground idle quickly. The engines take (IMHO) take too long to decelerate from flight to ground idle, 5 or 6 seconds in my testing - IRL Flight to GND idle is almost instant upon main gear touchdown. The reversers will not engage until ground idle is accomplished. The Boeing manual I believe says 2-5 seconds by the book, but this is not what the drivers are saying. No big deal for me. Rob Hall.

Same here....FSBUILD with Active Sky WXR injected is surprisingly accurate...did a couple pond hops on the weekend...within 100kg each trip.