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Tristan

Why would pilots use auto-land?

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Hi,I can't imagine why pilots in the airlines would ever use auto-land. I would imagine that landing the aircraft manually is one aspect of the job which they enjoy most. When I fly the Queen I never use auto...manual landings all the time. So presumebly autoland is used because its available, but how often and for what reason? If there was bad weather i.e strong winds, you would probably want to fly/land the aircraft manually. In addition I would see those type of landings as challenging and a way of improving my skills. Another factor against auto-land is long-haul flying, surely after sitting in the flight deck on and off for ten hours, monitoring systems and going through checks, manual landing would be the most desired. Furthermore, from the short domestic flights I've taken in real planes (737), I can definately feel from the way the plane is moving that the pilots are bringing them in manually.BTW is this topic appropriate for the PMDG forum now? There doesn't seem to be a PMDG discussion forum anymore. CheersTristan

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Guest aarskringspier

>Hi,>>I can't imagine why pilots in the airlines would ever use>auto-land. I would imagine that landing the aircraft manually>is one aspect of the job which they enjoy most. When I fly the>Queen I never use auto...manual landings all the time. So>presumebly autoland is used because its available, but how>often and for what reason? If there was bad weather i.e strong>winds, you would probably want to fly/land the aircraft>manually. In addition I would see those type of landings as>challenging and a way of improving my skills. Another factor>against auto-land is long-haul flying, surely after sitting in>the flight deck on and off for ten hours, monitoring systems>and going through checks, manual landing would be the most>desired. Furthermore, from the short domestic flights I've>taken in real planes (737), I can definately feel from the way>the plane is moving that the pilots are bringing them in>manually.>>BTW is this topic appropriate for the PMDG forum now? There>doesn't seem to be a PMDG discussion forum anymore. >>Cheers>>Tristan Its mainly used for bad weather; if youre in minimum vis autoland can take you down to the runway on a CATIII in 0/0 conditions. The only way ive seen that you can manually land a plane in 0/0 is a HUD equipped 737 from reading a Southwest article. Autoland is very effective; while I highly doubt many of them are engaging it in clear conditions it certainly has its place.

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I have only used it in 0/0. The 747 is definitly stable and I find it very easy to manually land it. I find the 737 the same, I hand fly that one down also.


Andrew

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Its retain "currancy"28days on most airframes is the max time without an Autoland.Chris.


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Guest

AFAIK that would depend on operator procedures and maybe national law for the country issueing the pilot's type rating.

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Guest Hawkeyeted

Brief overview of Type/Category of precision approaches:ILS CATEGORIES:-ILS Category I. An ILS approach procedure which provides for approach to a height above touchdown of not less than 200 feet and with runway visual range of not less than 1,800 feet.-ILS Category II. An ILS approach procedure which provides for approach to a height above touchdown of not less than 100 feet and with runway visual range of not less than 1,200 feet.-ILS Category III: a. IIIA.-An ILS approach procedure which provides for approach without a decision height minimum and with runway visual range of not less than 700 feet. b. IIIB.-An ILS approach procedure which provides for approach without a decision height minimum and with runway visual range of not less than 150 feet. c. IIIC.-An ILS approach procedure which provides for approach without a decision height minimum and without runway visual range minimum.Based on the above information: Category I approaches are NOT Autoland. It is flown with a single autopilot and no capability for Flare or Rollout. The pilot must be able to see the runway by 200 ft to legally land. (This is the most basic and widely used precision approach in FS9.)Category II approaches ARE Autoland with two autopilots controlling the aircraft during the approach, but the pilot needs to see the runway by 100 feet EVEN THOUGH THE AIRCRAFT WILL LAND ITSELF. Each autopilot system is isolated and independantly powered (L and R engine providing isolated power)Category III approaches are Autoland with three autopilots controlling the aircraft, each isolated from the other with its own electrical power source (L and R engines and the APU each providing independant power). The pilot doesn't need to see the runway to land, but the RVR (Runway Visual Range) governs whether its a Category IIIa, b, or c.

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Guest AJ

I am sure that different pilots have varying opinions on the use of autoland, and that some crew have a tendency to use it mroe than others. I am also sure that different airlines also have varying policies regarding its use. I am not certain if this involves autoland too, but I have read that some carriers, especially European ones, strongly encourage or even require that crews use autopilot for most of the flight, because the ride for the passengers tends to be consistently smoother, and fuel efficiency tends to be a little better, than when the craft is under manual control.Finally speciffically regarding the 747-400, if you read chapter 10 of PMDG's manual, there are certain visibility conditions where an autolanding is mandated. I quote from page 10-10: "When weather conditions are below Cat I minimums, autoland must be used to land the 747-400. Due to cockpit height and wheel base length, the minimums used in CatII and Cat III operations do not allow for manual control landings from an automated approach." Andrew

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God info about CAT approaches. I understand that aircrews must me certified or is it aircraft for CAT III approaches, particularly, CAT IIIc approaches?


Eric Fisher  

 

 

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Because they can. It might seem boring on a sim but even on AUTOLAND in a real 737 NG must be exciting to watch such an incredible machine do it's own thing right down to the floor. A pilot is still very very busy at this point. I know Brad Marsh who flys Pacific Blue uses it often...[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]AMD 64 4000+|ASUS K8V DELUXE|SAPPHIRE ATI X800XT PE|MUNCHKIN 3200|80 gig SATA|DELL 1905FP 19" LCD|TRACKir PRO|PFC JEPPESEN MOONEY YOKE|CH PRO PEDALS|


Randy J Smith

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Guest neilb

I use the AT more than anything on a landing.Its a joy to hand fly, but I struggle to "feel" the throttle with my tiny plastic throttle on my joystick so I tend to use AT till minimums.

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Just a note. The 737NG is certified to fly CAT IIIa approaches with two autopilots with DH RA of 50 feet.Floyd


John Floyd

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>I can't imagine why pilots in the airlines would ever use>auto-land. Very simple. In really bad weather they would use it (per airline's policy or regulations).Absent bad weather they would use autoland at least once a month (or every how many days) - this is both for pilot's and aircraft's currency. Such event must be logged in aircraft's logbook. The same way they have to use full power during takeoff (though they may not need it) every so many days. In aviation there is a simple rule - use it or loose it (applies to people and equipment).Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg


Michael J.

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With regard to the Cat III autoland, I didn't know you had to have the APU up and running to supply electrical power! Thanks for the tip :-) I will now start it up on descent :-)


Alaister Kay

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Guest wesl

I think people are confusing autoland requirements and CatII or CatIII approaches. I believe the rules are if the there are two functioning and independent autopilots, any approach except Cat111b or CatIIIc can be done. Any handflying (not including landing) in CatII or CatIII can be done, but I do believe a HUD is required. This doesn't mean pilots don't do it, but most SOPs require the autopilots to fly the approach to DH. Newer jetliners can make an autoland with a 25 kt crosswind component. I've been fortunate to actually observe one from the jumpseat into KTPA with an 18 kt crosswind. Very interesting. The wx wasn't that bad, the captain just wanted to show it off.So, two A/P for coupled approaches below CatI, three A/P for the autoland. Unless of course there is a HUD.Wes

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