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Guest slgiblin

A Simple Message To Microsoft

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NO NEW SIM...NO NEW COMPUTER...NO WINDOWS 7Microsoft is really shooting themselves in the foot with the discontinuation of Flight Sim. If they were smart they'd be putting extra focus on the gaming end of the business. Face it, these days computers are more than powerful enough to run any applications thrown at them excluding cutting edge games. I can't count how many computers I've built over the years and how much money I've spent JUST BECAUSE OF FLIGHT SIMULATOR!! Gone are the days of the short computer life span. People are NOT going to buy a new computer just to run Office 8.Microsoft just doesn't get it. If there are no games in their future there will be no future for Microsoft. They will also be killing the video card and processor industries too. Who do they think buys all this stuff?I was just going to upgrade my rig to run FSX. I've decided not to. I'm sticking with XP. They will never get another dime from me. My next computer will be a MAC. (Never thought I'd say that)Steve G.

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Flight simulator has always been a small, niche market. I know people are upset, but it really is a small product overall. The fact that it is very important to many of us does not change that fact. FS2004 and FSX are not the driving force behind PC hardware. They are just a tiny niche.

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Flight simulator has always been a small, niche market. I know people are upset, but it really is a small product overall. The fact that it is very important to many of us does not change that fact. FS2004 and FSX are not the driving force behind PC hardware. They are just a tiny niche.
I actually thing this could be hugely positive.It gives us simmers a definitive 5 year roadmap as to what we should be using. FS9 is screaming beyond belief right now, butter smooth at EVERY airport with all add-ons, sliders pinned and 90% AI. For me it will be my primary sim until FSX can match FS9 performance.It took at least 5 years after the release of FS9 to get us to this point with FS9 and FSX is not even close to the performance mark of FS9 yet. Personally I think we are still a few years off from that and in the interim if MS decides to sell or re-open the ACES franchise maybe we can finally get a new sim engine capable of driving more than 10 FPS that can actually offload physics processing to the GPU instead of strictly the CPU and see the same FPS we do in every other computer game/sim...I think this is an opportunity to leverage what we have for the next 5 years rather than worry about FSXI coming out and breaking all of our add-ons all over again. It gives simmers years of possible expansion between the two platforms and it gives developers the piece of mind that they can develop for both platforms indefinitely because the next release which breaks everything is no longer lurking around the corner.And like I said, if MS decides to rebuild or sell off the MSFS platform hopefully the next version will not still be running the same core sim engine from FS98 lol...Just my .02 but I don't think it is all that bad. In the scope of things I can't believe people are getting so upset. In the past week my company laid off over 4000 people, Circuit City is 30,000 people, Intel was 6,000 and Microsoft was 5000 I believe. So in one week, 45000 people went unemployed between 4 companies!!! I think we have bigger fish to fry and better things to cry about right now than FSXI.Cheers,-Paul

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I actually thing this could be hugely positive.It gives us simmers a definitive 5 year roadmap as to what we should be using. FS9 is screaming beyond belief right now, butter smooth at EVERY airport with all add-ons, sliders pinned and 90% AI. For me it will be my primary sim until FSX can match FS9 performance.It took at least 5 years after the release of FS9 to get us to this point with FS9 and FSX is not even close to the performance mark of FS9 yet. Personally I think we are still a few years off from that and in the interim if MS decides to sell or re-open the ACES franchise maybe we can finally get a new sim engine capable of driving more than 10 FPS that can actually offload physics processing to the GPU instead of strictly the CPU and see the same FPS we do in every other computer game/sim...I think this is an opportunity to leverage what we have for the next 5 years rather than worry about FSXI coming out and breaking all of our add-ons all over again. It gives simmers years of possible expansion between the two platforms and it gives developers the piece of mind that they can develop for both platforms indefinitely because the next release which breaks everything is no longer lurking around the corner.And like I said, if MS decides to rebuild or sell off the MSFS platform hopefully the next version will not still be running the same core sim engine from FS98 lol...Just my .02 but I don't think it is all that bad. In the scope of things I can't believe people are getting so upset. In the past week my company laid off over 4000 people, Circuit City is 30,000 people, Intel was 6,000 and Microsoft was 5000 I believe. So in one week, 45000 people went unemployed between 4 companies!!! I think we have bigger fish to fry and better things to cry about right now than FSXI.Cheers,-Paul
agree 100%

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Flight simulator has always been a small, niche market. I know people are upset, but it really is a small product overall. The fact that it is very important to many of us does not change that fact. FS2004 and FSX are not the driving force behind PC hardware. They are just a tiny niche.
If it's Microsoft's policy to look no further than their nose I would agree with them that FS is just a tiny niche and definitely not a direct big money maker. But that tiny niche has created a huge extremely technical world wide addon industry, incouraging many thousands of very diverse FS enthusiasts/developers to be bonded to many other MS products, let alone to any new versions of Windows itself. Without FS this whole new industry would never even have been thought of. But now, because of this short term MS policy and especially their axing of FS, any existing degree of trust in MS and the ongoing high expectations of new developements, has turned into outright mistrust and this is something which MS evidently prefers in their quest for more and more dollars.FS may not be ... THE ... driving force behind PC hardware but it is certainly .... ONE OF THE .... driving forces for the developement of ever faster PC hard and software for which in the longer term, a large part of the world was waiting. E.g. FSX was launched into a market inwich fast enough hardware did not yet exist and users/players were patiently biding their time until such hardware does exist. I cannot believe that hardware producers like Intel and AMD have reached their maximum CPU speeds and are not developing their products any further."When the going gets tough, the tough get going" does not seem to feature in any of Microsoft's policies and they evidently prefer to take the easy way out and axe anything which they deem to be too small, irrespective of the indirect negative consequences. What's next ?Hans

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What if the ACES team went to Google and proposed to start a new flight simulator? After all Google Earth has a hidden Flight Simulator inside. With Google Earth there is already satalite imagery there too. I think that would tremdously help with the landclass scenery even if they can't use the satalite scenery. I hope this could also be considered. I know it is a longshot, and they would have to scrap the code they left with Microsoft, but the core engine could actually be better in the long run.

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What if the ACES team went to Google and proposed to start a new flight simulator? After all Google Earth has a hidden Flight Simulator inside. With Google Earth there is already satalite imagery there too. I think that would tremdously help with the landclass scenery even if they can't use the satalite scenery. I hope this could also be considered. I know it is a longshot, and they would have to scrap the code they left with Microsoft, but the core engine could actually be better in the long run.
Very interesting. Google may just be open-minded enough to do it IMO...I do agree entirely, though, with Paul. I'm kind of happy that I don't have to now upgrade my computer--again--to run another new version of FS. FS9 is fast, cheap, and nearly perfect on even semi-cheap hardware.

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Quite simply, if not for MSFS, I would have little reason to run Windows on some of my computers. Most of the other things I do are not locked into that particular OS, and I prefer Unix.But I doubt that M$ cares, because I'm in a very small minority, they dominate the OS business on other applications and non-application factors, and when I buy a PC from a major OEM I have to pay for a Windows license whether I use it or not. So long as they get my money, they don't really care.

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Listen, Microsoft does not care if you buy a new computer or not. Take the world, less than half are interested in installing a flight sim on their computer. Microsoft, is trying to save money, and not buying a computer will not hurt them. One question,how many people do you think will switch over to x-plane because of this?Listen, Microsoft does not care if you buy a new computer or not. Take the world, less than half are interested in installing a flight sim on their computer. Microsoft, is trying to save money, and not buying a computer will not hurt them. One question,how many people do you think will switch over to x-plane because of this?

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Microsoft wants all games to go to Xbox. They even said it in their release: "a LIVE experience." They feel that consoles are the future and the PC is for work. Sucks, but in a few more years there will be no more "Games for Windows." With the popularity of consoles these days, it makes sense, although I do not agree with it. Go into any store today and look at the ratio of console games to PC. Respectfully, did you guys really not see the writing on the wall?Personally, I would like to see Aces go and develop a flight sim of their own, without any MS code in it. Barring that, if X-Plane hired some of them on, it cojld really improve it...Kevin

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Microsoft wants all games to go to Xbox. They even said it in their release: "a LIVE experience."
S.T.O.P. Apparently very few know what LIVE actually is...Look here to learn:http://www.microsoft.com/games/en-US/Live/.../AboutLive.aspxWhat MS is aiming for is for everyone to be forced to login to their service to play a "flying game" if and when they get around to it... :( Where is the "vomiting my guts out" smilie? :(

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What if the ACES team went to Google and proposed to start a new flight simulator? After all Google Earth has a hidden Flight Simulator inside. With Google Earth there is already satalite imagery there too. I think that would tremdously help with the landclass scenery even if they can't use the satalite scenery. I hope this could also be considered. I know it is a longshot, and they would have to scrap the code they left with Microsoft, but the core engine could actually be better in the long run.
Microsoft'as decision shows it has concluded that the returns from continuing to develop the next version of flight Simulator aren't worth it - even though it would be building on existing code. I suggest that indicates that it wouldn't be worthwhile for a 3rd party to attempt to develop on new version effectively from scratch.Let's face the facts. Microsoft has made a commercial decision about the future of a product with a minority interest. We may not like it but companies make that sort of decision every day and I seriously doubt complaining about it it these forums or petitioning will have any effect at all on Microsoft.

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I suggest that indicates that it wouldn't be worthwhile for a 3rd party to attempt to develop on new version effectively from scratch.
Well, you look at something like DCS Blackshart, which was made by Russians, and it's extremely good.If these guys can make Blackshark, why can't they make a civilian flight sim?Quite frankly, the best flight sim programmers right now seem to be coming out of Russia.... maybe the Vodka and the cold stir their programming juices over there, I don't know...But think about it...The overhead for a Russian firm in terms of salary for devs and support staff, etc., I'm sure would be much, much lower than it would be at the bureaucratic behemoth that is Microsoft who are forced to pay western level salaries...

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Well, you look at something like DCS Blackshart, which was made by Russians, and it's extremely good.If these guys can make Blackshark, why can't they make a civilian flight sim?Quite frankly, the best flight sim programmers right now seem to be coming out of Russia.... maybe the Vodka and the cold stir their programming juices over there, I don't know...But think about it...The overhead for a Russian firm in terms of salary for devs and support staff, etc., I'm sure would be much, much lower than it would be at the bureaucratic behemoth that is Microsoft who are forced to pay western level salaries...
------------Then there is always the possibility that MS is way ahead of all of us- and is in the process of outsourcing FS development to a Russian or Asian subcontractor! That would explain the PR statement from MS that "we remain committed to Flight Simulator----" !!Alex Reid

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Suppose we had never been told about the closing of ACES and the cancellation of a never-officially-announced FSvNext?Would we really be in any different position than we are now? All we knew was that if there was going to be an "FS11," we couldn't possibly expect to see it released until at least late Q4 of 2010.Now I know that there wasn't even any "Alpha" code yet for FSvNext. A lot of pre-planning had been done, and the advances being made for TS2 were widely announced. It was likely that much of what was going to be in TS2 would have also been incorporated into any future FSvNext......but aside from that there was nothing but sheer conjecture that any FSvNext would ever be announced officially, much less released.So again I ask, how would the situation really be any different? We still don't know if - or when - any future FS will be produced.From my perspective, nothing is different at all. Freeware and Commercial modelers will continue to support FS9 and/or FSX as they see fit, irrespective of any possible future FS release.Good grief! There are still folks (admittedly few) who're producing FS98 models! ;D

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My experience over many years of gaming and gaming development is that there is a very unique difference between game buyers and regular software buyers. That difference is called emotion.When I purchase MS Exel and spend X hundred dollars for it, if it doesnt run on my current PC, I am ###### at Microsoft. When I purchase Flight Simulator for less than 100 bucks and it doesnt run on my current PC, I BUY A NEW PC. Now which is the more powerful market controlling software? Frankly I think Microsoft doesnt get this. Once I have the better PC to run FS...dont you think I can also enjoy a better experience with MS Office? When you engage peoples emotion it is DIRECTLY tied to their wallet.

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NO NEW SIM...NO NEW COMPUTER...NO WINDOWS 7Microsoft is really shooting themselves in the foot with the discontinuation of Flight Sim. If they were smart they'd be putting extra focus on the gaming end of the business. Face it, these days computers are more than powerful enough to run any applications thrown at them excluding cutting edge games. I can't count how many computers I've built over the years and how much money I've spent JUST BECAUSE OF FLIGHT SIMULATOR!! Gone are the days of the short computer life span. People are NOT going to buy a new computer just to run Office 8.Microsoft just doesn't get it. If there are no games in their future there will be no future for Microsoft. They will also be killing the video card and processor industries too. Who do they think buys all this stuff?I was just going to upgrade my rig to run FSX. I've decided not to. I'm sticking with XP. They will never get another dime from me. My next computer will be a MAC. (Never thought I'd say that)Steve G.
I agree. Flightsimulator is the only program I run that requires windows. I will keep this computor going for fsx but my next computor is going to be a mac. No more windows headaches!!! keith

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S.T.O.P. Apparently very few know what LIVE actually is...Look here to learn:http://www.microsoft.com/games/en-US/Live/.../AboutLive.aspxWhat MS is aiming for is for everyone to be forced to login to their service to play a "flying game" if and when they get around to it... :( Where is the "vomiting my guts out" smilie? :(
Bill,Was that a TYPO ? PLAY ===> PAYieWhat MS is aiming for is for everyone to be forced to login to their service to PAY to fly "flying game" if and when they get around to it... :( Also, expect every Cloud to hold an AD !!Geoff_D

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