This is strange... :( I can't find anymore, the thread of Robert or Ryan saying that the JS41 3D cockpit is closer to a default FSX plane, about frame per second, than the PMDG MD11 or 747... :( :( B) Benjamin

And supposing you did find the thread in question, what would you do with it? Try to stir up more trouble?Nick

maybe there should be a "sugestion box" type thread where no one can reply but the pmdg admin! would that end the little back and forth drama? just an idea. :(

Can I just confirm that adding my name to the end of posts is not required if my username is my real name? None of my posts have ever been deleted as far as I am aware, but I never actually got official clearance from PMDG ATC :(

I would love to see a good B777, as it is a really beautiful airplane. The flight deck might look similar to the B737NG but in reality they are two completely different animals. I do think it would be very difficult for the developers to create a good B777 due to its complexity. Re-creating the electronic checklist and it's logic, the EICAS system and the avionics would be a very difficult task.The electronic checklist is absolutely amazing by the way and I think only the A380 is the only airliner that has a similar system. No paper checklist is used and virtually all situations/scenarios are covered by the checklist. If a problem arises, we just press the checklist button and the correct checklist is displayed. Its an amazing system.The J41 looks nice by the way, but I have no interest in buying an airplane without a 2D panel. Shame you guys didn't make a 2d panel!!

Very sorry for not signing the post.Chris

I would love to see a good B777, as it is a really beautiful airplane. The flight deck might look similar to the B737NG but in reality they are two completely different animals. I do think it would be very difficult for the developers to create a good B777 due to its complexity. Re-creating the electronic checklist and it's logic, the EICAS system and the avionics would be a very difficult task.The electronic checklist is absolutely amazing by the way and I think only the A380 is the only airliner that has a similar system. No paper checklist is used and virtually all situations/scenarios are covered by the checklist. If a problem arises, we just press the checklist button and the correct checklist is displayed. Its an amazing system.The J41 looks nice by the way, but I have no interest in buying an airplane without a 2D panel. Shame you guys didn't make a 2d panel!!

And i'm sure it has been asked before, but what is the reason for no 2d panel?? I prefer a nice and crisp 2d panel and a great system simulation like the MD11. Great product and a joy to fly. A 2d and and a 3d package would keep all costumers happy.Regards,Chris

And i'm sure it has been asked before, but what is the reason for no 2d panel?? I prefer a nice and crisp 2d panel and a great system simulation like the MD11. Great product and a joy to fly. A 2d and and a 3d package would keep all costumers happy.

The reason is simple. A 2D cockpit is more time consuming and labor intensive, leads to less products in the pipeline, and results in more expensive products upon completion. Beyond that, 2D is considerably less flexible. As for clarity, the days of blurry VCs is over....The writing is on the wall. If you look at the products of many popular developers, 2D cockpits are already becoming a thing of the past. Just look at the Aerosoft Catalina, or any one of Carenado's GA aircraft, to name just a few, and you will find no 2D cockpit. With newer PC's cranking out insane frame rates in FSX, even with complex addons, 2D will slowly fade into annals of flight sim history.

That last post scares me Vin. Yes 3D panels have come a long way, but for some of us it's still not as ergonomic or as functional as a simple 2D panel. Not the least bit due to the fact that you're trying to put a 3D world onto a 2D screen.The MD11 3D panel is impressive, but I just don't use it. For me, the 3D cockpit is more for the "look, there's my house" sort of flying that I do when I'm idle (you know, when you start up at the runway with the engines running). For serious flying and learning, which is 99% of my flying, the 2D panel is a must. I'm sure there are many other users who look at it this way.I sincerely hope that the jetstream doesn't mark the beginning of the end of PMDG's excellent 2D panels. I'd be forced to pass on the A320, which I'm very much looking forward to seeing. I'm also looking forward to the Dash 8 I've been hearing about, but without a 2D panel, I'll be doing without it.PaulPS, why is the 2D panel harder to create than the 3D panel?

This whole discussion has turned somewhat depressing... I dont really know what to say, but the fact that the 2D may be dead to PMDG is quite alarming. Am i to believe the NGX will have no 2D? If so, PMDG will never see another dollar of my money.... @Check_AirmanIm right there with ya, i actually go in with a HEX editor and disable the VC. Im more of a learning guy and love the amount of training the 2D offers. Although the VC and 2D offer the exact same gauges, for me, the VC can become somewhat cumbersome and distracting to whats really important, getting the passengers safely on the ground.To others, they love the VC, it offers beautiful views of the internal and external scenery, but for me, all i need is a small forward view, and some nice avionics to get my fill of FS.@ranoldMaking a Gulfstream would be impossible since the company that owns the rights to the name Gulfstream also own the rights to the entire look of the airplane itself and would never license that away to anyone. Gulfstream has stated before its extremely protective of its product. (one of which is the design of those giant windows)

Am i to believe the NGX will have no 2D?

Let not your hearts be troubled. Our airline simulations will continue to have 2D panels.

Vin make Kylan Happy!!!!!Thanks :(

Let not your hearts be troubled. Our airline simulations will continue to have 2D panels.

thanks!Paul

Ugh - some grown-ups are like children. Get over the 2D panels. It's quite annoying when people sit around bashing how horrible 3D panels are before they even try the J41 panel. It is like no other panel created. It simulates flying so much more than 2D panels - that it makes no sense to sit there and stare at a 2 dimensional representation when you can be fully immersed, titling and turning your head as you do in REAL LIFE. I hope PMDG doesn't make one more 2D panel ever again. Spend the time developing products like you just did with the J41!

Ugh - some grown-ups are like children. Get over the 2D panels. It's quite annoying when people sit around bashing how horrible 3D panels are before they even try the J41 panel. It is like no other panel created. It simulates flying so much more than 2D panels - that it makes no sense to sit there and stare at a 2 dimensional representation when you can be fully immersed, titling and turning your head as you do in REAL LIFE. I hope PMDG doesn't make one more 2D panel ever again. Spend the time developing products like you just did with the J41!

To each their own :(

If 2d panels get out of production I'm afraid that my simulation hobby will be over as well, nothing against those who like 3d(I do not like 3d, that's my opinion!) I bought the J41 to try it out, plane is wonderful but I don't see myself using it again due to the fact that I didn't feel comfortable with 3d, that was the first and the last purchase that I will ever makefor a product without 2d panels. Oh by the way, 2 kinds of customers (3d Folks) and (2d Folks), the 3d folks Congratulations you've got what you want, for the second class which includes me, seems to be a tendency that less and less planes will hit the market with no 2d ,so for us we either get used to 3d of halt simming, I'll take second option! Leo Soares

While I agree that everyone has a right to their opinion, I think far too many people are getting worked up of this 2d/3d element of simming. Leo said there are two kinds of customers...I respectfully disagree. I think there are 3 kinds. The one he is missing is people who like both and that is where I fall under. As of now, I don't have Track IR, but I do plan on getting it. For the time being, I hold down the space bar and move the mouse around to look around in the VC. I feel that some people have the wrong attitude and aren't WILLING to give the 3D a chance. The two best examples I can provide is the PMDG JS4100 and the Real Air Beech Duke. The clarity of those panels are just as good, if not better than any 2d panel. When fully zoomed in, there is still no loss in detail and clarity. Since real world pilots fly in a 3d enviornment it only makes sence to go 3D anyway since the technology is now there to support a good 3d panel. Saying that if 2d goes away people will stop simming is just ridiculous. Let me ask you this...did you feel comfortable the first time you drove a car, or maybe the first time you parallel parked? For those who fly in real life...were you comfortable behind the yoke for your first lesson or perhaps the first landing you made? I'd be willing to bet you weren't. My point is, these things were all new to us at one point, and even though we didn't feel comfortable, we kept trying and eventually became comfortable with things. Why can't we do this with the 3d panel if we can do it with lots of other things in life? Too many complain without truely trying things. Again, this is coming from someone who liked both the 2d and 3d. While it took a little getting used to, the J41 is now my favorite aircraft in my hangar and I do own all PMDG products along with other high quality simulations. I agree with to each his own, but give it a true shot before complaining or making statements that PMDG has lost your business because of no 2d panel...you just might be surprised how much you like it once you get used to it.Chad