Hi folks havn't posted for ages OK - I get it (Blue Moon - very good)Gerry

The reason is simple. A 2D cockpit is more time consuming and labor intensive, leads to less products in the pipeline, and results in more expensive products upon completion. Beyond that, 2D is considerably less flexible. As for clarity, the days of blurry VCs is over....The writing is on the wall. If you look at the products of many popular developers, 2D cockpits are already becoming a thing of the past. Just look at the Aerosoft Catalina, or any one of Carenado's GA aircraft, to name just a few, and you will find no 2D cockpit. With newer PC's cranking out insane frame rates in FSX, even with complex addons, 2D will slowly fade into annals of flight sim history.

What you say is true...but doesn't come anywhere near dealing with a customer's personal preferences. Granted, almost everyone is on the "VC bandwagon" these days...but I don't really care how many developers you list who do VC only. I won't fly VC, it's as simple as that. Unless I'm in my Christen Eagle or some other similar aircraft, I will only purchase aircraft which include a 2D panel, and preferably the ability to DISABLE the VC. I'm in the minority...I understand that and have already come to grips with the fact that FS9 is my last flight simulator (unless some other developer comes along, who can make the REAL improvements MS SHOULD have made) and that my new purchases of add-on aircraft for FS9 will fall dramatically off due to FSX only and VC only products. So be it. I'm not telling you this because I think it will make a bit of difference...I know it won't...if everyone wants VC, VC ONLY is what we will get. My preferences have nothing to do with the "latest technology"...I just prefer an easy to use 2D panel, without the panning, finding and clicking involved in VC. I find nothing "engrossing" or "Immersive" in a VC flight of anything bigger than an open cockpit bi-wing or acrobatic airplane? Nope, I'm not strapping some device to my head or any other of the latest gimmicks. I've tried them and I don't like them. I have pretty much everything I need to fly FS9 for the rest of my life, with high FPS, no unecessary "eye candy" (I don't stand on the wing, in flight, and count rivet heads!!) and plenty of 2D aircraft...including the upcoming Airsimmer A3XX series. You guys go on...I'll sit back here and enjoy the performance.

My preferences have nothing to do with the "latest technology"...I just prefer an easy to use 2D panel, without the panning, finding and clicking involved in VC. I find nothing "engrossing" or "Immersive" in a VC flight of anything bigger than an open cockpit bi-wing or acrobatic airplane? Nope, I'm not strapping some device to my head or any other of the latest gimmicks. I've tried them and I don't like them. I have pretty much everything I need to fly FS9 for the rest of my life, with high FPS, no unecessary "eye candy" (I don't stand on the wing, in flight, and count rivet heads!!) and plenty of 2D aircraft...including the upcoming Airsimmer A3XX series. You guys go on...I'll sit back here and enjoy the performance.

Im in your boat my friend :)Your not the only one!!!

Ugh - some grown-ups are like children. Get over the 2D panels. It's quite annoying when people sit around bashing how horrible 3D panels are before they even try the J41 panel. It is like no other panel created. It simulates flying so much more than 2D panels - that it makes no sense to sit there and stare at a 2 dimensional representation when you can be fully immersed, titling and turning your head as you do in REAL LIFE. I hope PMDG doesn't make one more 2D panel ever again. Spend the time developing products like you just did with the J41!

Nobody, at least not me, is "bashing" VC...read my lips...WE DON'T LIKE IT! We don't use it, we don't enjoy flying with it, we find it slow and laborious and a slick diversion. We want to fly the aircraft...we find the easiest way to do that is 2D...not the ridiculous "pan and hunt and click" you seem to enjoy? This has nothing to do with "bashing"...it has to do with priorities (being able to hit a needed button before you can pan to it), Comfort...we PREFER it this way, and performance (disabling the VC is still the BEST way to improve performance...and I ain't running a slouch system).All the "Bashing" here appears to be directed to those of us who don't "buy in" to VC. Why do you continue to believe we don't fly VC for any other than ONE reason...W-E D-O-N-'-T L-I-K-E I-T! It's very simple and nothing you can say will change the way we prefer to fly...not some gimmick device strapped to our heads or anything else. This is the way WE 2D'ers fly and I doubt many of us will change just because it's "Old School" or considered passe. The point is...we don't care, we like it the way we do it and most of us will probably not change.Some children are like children...it's quite annoying when VC enthusiasts denigrate OUR peferences...it's childish, in fact. So, Blake...fly your VC all you want but don't come here insulting us who find it cumbersome and trite.

Hi Blake,So true,By the way, I think everybody should agree that a 737NG and a 777 are very similar and...very different.Obviouly, since they are both recent Boeing products, they have a lot in common but...Even for those of us (including me) who prefer short/medium range flights, strapping into a 747, MD11, 767 or ...777, programming the FMS, taking off, going to bed and waking up the following day to land (real time) half a world away is an experience that you can't have in a 737 and that can be a lot of fun. And the aircraft systems are different, or give you a broader view of how a manufacturer's systems are implemented in a different product family (or simulated by a different sim developper), not to mention what you learn about transcontinental operations, etc etc.If minor things (like for example beeing able to choose the livery from the airline we like the best) can make us happy, then beeing able to select the plane we like the best takes us to heaven. For some, switching from a Boeing product to another Boeing product is all they need - even if switching from a large jet to a regional turboprop would be even more of a challenge.At this time, taking into account the limitations of my present computer, I am perfectly happy with my NG, 767 and ATR but I know there are some absolutely great PMDG planes waiting for me when I and my computer are ready for them. Best regards,Bruno

And then Blake graces us with his "Grown ups will be children" statement...because we see no advantage or use for VC???Let's talk about the definition of "civility" and "rudeness"...or several other definitions for Blake's post, shall we?

Im in your boat my friend :)Your not the only one!!!

PMDG will never make any kind of 2D cockpit for those "cheap" products, don't dream about getting a Dash 8 with more stuff than the JS41. Just see that the cold and dark isn't included in the release version menu, what a shame...Beta testers incompetence or manager rushing ? As a customers of the JS41, I hope that i will see the update soon, not like the MD11 advanced tutorial. BenjaminPS : Still looking for the "Vanishing in the air" Robert's post about the fact that the JS41 3D cockpit will be more fluid as a FSX default plane than the MD11.

I disagree. MD-11 is already 99% cargo airplane and 747-400 will be replaced with 777 and 747-8 in next 5-7 years (at least for major air carriers)PDF report

And you will be seeing those MD-11's and 747's flying cargo, around the world for the next 15-20 years."Cargo rules. You don't feed it, it doesn't get thirsty or "grabby" with the non existent attendants...and it doesn't scream when you pound down at LSGG"

Beta testers incompetence or manager rushing ?

It was a combination of both, really. Most of us never actually flew the airplane in FSX, we just watched it spin around and around on the Free Flight screen. Every once in a while, we'd submit a bug about the airplane spinning to the left instead of to the right, but RSR would beat us with a wet noodle while shouting "FASTER, FASTER!!".That's how I remember it, anyway.You probably could have done a much better job, what with your awesome command of the english language and your disarming personality. Are you a Sagittarius?NickIncompetent Beta Tester, 2nd Class

PS : Still looking for the "Vanishing in the air" Robert's post about the fact that the JS41 3D cockpit will be more fluid as a FSX default plane than the MD11.

Maybe you meant this one:http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=257825If you spent 1/10th the time searching for the thread as you do complaining about its supposed disappearance, you probably would have found it on your own. It took me a whopping 69 seconds. If you find something dishonest or factually inaccurate in any of those replies, I'm sure you'll let us all know. Otherwise, can you stop breaking everyone's balls now?NickExpert Amateur Forum Searcher and,Incompetent Beta Tester, 2nd Class

Im in your boat my friend :)Your not the only one!!!

Please make room in the boat for me too :(

Wow...

wow....'I'm not using VC'....'I won't eat my vegetables'.... :( lol....c'mon now...how can you NOT like using the VC? every flown an aeroplane? its not hard honestly...try your local airfield, I'm sure they do trial flights. if you do...you'll notice that you will need to look around the cockpit using your direct and peripheral (spelling?) vision not sit straight ahead starin at the screen.VC is the future...embrace it mate....get yourself a Track IR and REALLY enjoy FS. Pharoah

wow....'I'm not using VC'....'I won't eat my vegetables'.... :( lol....c'mon now...how can you NOT like using the VC? every flown an aeroplane? its not hard honestly...try your local airfield, I'm sure they do trial flights. if you do...you'll notice that you will need to look around the cockpit using your direct and peripheral (spelling?) vision not sit straight ahead starin at the screen.VC is the future...embrace it mate....get yourself a Track IR and REALLY enjoy FS. Pharoah

Right back at ya, Why dont you like using the 2D?Its preference... and i find the the 2D more practical and realistic. And yes, im a pilot, ive done a fair amount of flying.Infact, whether you fly 2D or VC, both are 2D environments. They just display information differently. Both types of views aernt realistic, but i choose 2D as its the most real to life selection. And i find the way information is displayed in the 2D to be far more helpful, intuitive and easy to read than in the VC. No one is trying to kill the VC. We just want our opinions in the mix. Everyone has used the 2D, especually those of us who fly online, where quick thinking, and a very fast mouse hand is needed on those hairline approuches into some of the worlds most ATC active airports. To me, having all those quick select keys and special clickspots just so i can flip from view to view in the VC isnt appealing. I respect those of you who enjoy the VC. Its a different type of flying. Why cant you guys respect my preference as well?

What was the point to do MD-11 which is almost retired in real world? And 747-400 which will be retired pretty soon?

Someone please help me here, because I am struggling to understand why some people have such a blinkered view of flight simulation :(

I respect those of you who enjoy the VC. Its a different type of flying. Why cant you guys respect my preference as well?

Exactly. I prefer red wine to white wine. I like goose, but find turkey bland. It's only a different preference. I fully accept that the world of FS will leave me behind. That's fine, my choice, my problem - and I have not even the slightest antagonism towards the VC majority. Additionally, I refuse to wear a funny thing on my head whilst sat in front of a computer screen - but that's probably due to my male mid-life crises :( Best regards to all, regardless of what type of panel you prefer!