Apart from a few posts this thread is absolutely ridiculous! Some of the 2D guys have a very good point about ease of use, I would prefer 2D panels to stick around so I can undock certain panels to other monitors. Apart from that I fly in VC 99% of time. I use TrackIR, no silly hats as I already use a Headset for Vatsim so it clicks right on, regarding ease of pushing buttons, if you don't have hardware you can still assign all autopilot functions etc to keyboard commands, and a cheap second monitor allows you to use the MCDU etc with your mouse in 2D. I have never had to touch a single switch in the VC for years.Anyway, lets just move on! each to there own...Rob

You know, many of you are leaving out the element of art as an explanation for choices that PMDG make about their products. Perhaps their choice of VC-only is an expression of an innovation that is important to THEM right now. Sure, the profit motive has a hand of their wheel, but if they didn't get some artful joy and satisfaction in this, I don't think they'd continue on. From what I recall, they all have "day jobs." I don't think anybody complained when Leonardo da Vinci did a self portrait in chalk after having done the "Mona Lisa" in oil. And, most importantly, even if they DID complain, the body of Leo's works have stood the test of time.What is most amusing to me are the posts that go something like this: "damn you PMDG, you wont get a RED CENT of my money unless you do X, Y and Z!" What vanity! What narcissism! It makes me wonder how such a person navigates their daily life without having a meltdown. Then again, I suppose it is difficult to cross a man (or woman?) when it comes to hobbies: never come between a man and hobby, right?Just sayin'.

You know, many of you are leaving out the element of art as an explanation for choices that PMDG make about their products. Perhaps their choice of VC-only is an expression of an innovation that is important to THEM right now. Sure, the profit motive has a hand of their wheel, but if they didn't get some artful joy and satisfaction in this, I don't think they'd continue on. From what I recall, they all have "day jobs." I don't think anybody complained when Leonardo da Vinci did a self portrait in chalk after having done the "Mona Lisa" in oil. And, most importantly, even if they DID complain, the body of Leo's works have stood the test of time.What is most amusing to me are the posts that go something like this: "damn you PMDG, you wont get a RED CENT of my money unless you do X, Y and Z!" What vanity! What narcissism! It makes me wonder how such a person navigates their daily life without having a meltdown. Then again, I suppose it is difficult to cross a man (or woman?) when it comes to hobbies: never come between a man and hobby, right?Just sayin'.

Maybe the Louvre has some extra space next to the Mona Lisa for the PMDG 747! :(

Maybe the Louvre has some extra space next to the Mona Lisa for the PMDG 747! :(

That JS41 panel is certainly a work of art. Absolutely stunning. I hope they are making lots of money on it.

Hi folks havn't posted for ages OK - I get it (Blue Moon - very good)GerryGerry I like it, I did think at first you were having a swipe until i read on, hopefully in a few years i will be able to retire spend some time at home, get on the net and join in with the intense debate that can be had.Anyway what about the 748, got to be a winnerRegards Carl "Bluemoon" Renshaw

Someone please help me here, because I am struggling to understand why some people have such a blinkered view of flight simulation :(

Perhaps because if the MD-11 was retired, PMDG may not have been able to develop it. It's one of my favorite aircraft and I honestly wish I was had the chance in real life to fly in one. Whatever retires in the real world, PMDG brings to the sim. Instead of asking them your question, thank them for what they have done. :(

Not to interrupt this debate, but I would like a 777. A plenty of RW short hops and some nice mid length stuff.

LOL! C'mon aboard, Matey's! We can watch the SS VC Liner sail away into the sunset as we drink a few ales and do some fishing for our dinner! Have any of my fellow 2D'ers noticed...if we got together we could probably have come up with every reply from a VC'er...almost word for word?? LMAO! Ah, well...there's no having an intelligent discussion with most of them. They are too full of themselves to understand one simple principle...we don't like it! "Have you ever flown a real aircraft?" What does that have to do with VC? The human eye-hand coordination is a million times faster that using a VC! Comparing a VC to a real pilot's experience in a real cockpit is ridiculous."It's the wave of the future, 2D is dead!" Have a pleasant trip, then, my friend."I always laugh at the screaming, ranting 'I'll never spend another red cent on your products!'" LOL! I don't recall any of the 2D'ers here in this thread making any screaming rants?? Just a simple statement of fact...we don't like VC so WHY should we spend money on a VC only product? Now that WOULD be stupid. "Your a bunch of children because..." Yadda, yadda, yadda. If your not a VC'er your an idiot, a moron, a "child, an imbecile or technologically challenged...blah, blah, blah.None of you get it, do you? No matter how many times all of us say it...you refuse to hear. You have proven this, over and over again, by coming up with the exact same things you say everytime this discussion comes up, since the introduction of VC. It's like watching the movie "Groundhog Day"...over and over and over."Use Track IR and you will finally get it!" I have, several times...it's goofy. Unless your in a TRUE VR environment, or have 8+ monitors, it's nothing but hard on the eyeballs. Ever tried starting a DC-3...watching the dry crank prop rotations while you strain your eyeballs to the right so you can see your monitor and the various switches you will need to operate?? Again, I have...no thanks!"Kylan, would you hand me a beer out of that cooler, please? Hey!!...I think you've got a fish on, Gavin...tighten up the drag a little. Look at that big ole SS VC Liner...isn't she pretty as she sails over the horizon? OK...back to the important stuff...let's get that fish in so we have some dinner! Need a beer Gavin? Y'know, there's a lot more room in my boat these days? Kinda peaceful, don't you think?Oh yeah...the 777 thing. Already got one which works fine for me...PSS. They may never come back but their 757 and 777 is more than adequate for my FS9, non-VC needs. I certainly would never spend "another red cent!!!" at CS. Nobody needs a 757 THAT much! LOL!

To Victor, and a few other fellow simmers, I don't necessarily disagree with some of your opinions but, hey, as Bob Dylan says in "All Along the Watchtower":"No reason to get excited, the thief he kindly spoke..."Kind regards,BrunoPS : Sorry, Dylan doesn't say anything specific about VC's or 777sPPS : Now, when a Frenchie starts quoting Dylan, you are in trouble !

To Victor, and a few other fellow simmers, I don't nesessarily disagree with some of your opinions but, hey, as Bob Dylan says in "All Along the Watchtower":"No reason to get excited, the thief he kindly spoke..."Kind regards,BrunoPS : Sorry, Dylan doesn't say anything specific about VC's or 777sPPS : Now, when a Frenchie starts quoting Dylan, you are in trouble !

A "Frenchie"? Are we talking France...or Quebec? Ville Lesalle, and other environs of Montreal for me...Tabarnac!

Hi Victor,We're talking about France (Paris). But I am pretty sure our cousins from Quebec say "Tabernacle" - not tabarnac - (I just checked, it's the same word in English).Kind regards,Bruno

That JS41 panel is certainly a work of art. Absolutely stunning. I hope they are making lots of money on it.

I would certainly rather look at the PMDG J41 panel than the Mona Lisa, or any of that truly ridiculous stuff that is passed off as "art" these days.

Perhaps because if the MD-11 was retired, PMDG may not have been able to develop it. It's one of my favorite aircraft and I honestly wish I was had the chance in real life to fly in one. Whatever retires in the real world, PMDG brings to the sim. Instead of asking them your question, thank them for what they have done.

You do realise that I was questioning the sanity of the poster, and not PMDG?

I would certainly rather look at the PMDG J41 panel than the Mona Lisa, or any of that truly ridiculous stuff that is passed off as "art" these days.Gentlemen - let's not go too far!! Better than the Mona Lisa????????Gerry

When did PMDG become an Art institute? I dont know about you but i buy PMDG products for training and to learn new things. Not to have a pretty little model in my hangar. @ Strider, ive already come to that conclusion. :(I, personally, have a beef with no man on this forum. We all have our preferences, and i respect them fully. But when you guys come on here and say the VC is more realistic than a 2D and somehow offers a new feeling or reality, you guys are kidding yourselves. Ive been flying for years, and i can tell you, the VC is actually counter intuitive. First off, its not a 3D environment. Its a fancy rendering of polygons to make you feel like its a 3D environment. Second, the VC often distracts me (not sure about you guys) when flying. In flight school for the airlines, i was always taught that if something distracts you, get rid of it. You are in the cockpit to fly the plane, not to look around the cockpit and stare at your empty F/O seat. Third, the VC seems to be more of a gimmick to people who enjoy the looking around part of Flight Simming rather than the actual Simming. I can tell you, that no pilot has to have a plastic thing strapped to their head, while they memorize keyboard assignments and try to get the mouse to hover over an active click spot in the VC. In the 2D, everything is there.... much like in the real world. The only thing you have to do is click semi-icons to bring up different panels. You may be saying "Well ha! There are steps involved in 2D panel operations too!!" and you would be right. But in the real world, we are taught to break portions of the cockpit into sections. It makes life much easier and allows a better ability for the student to learn. There are many perks to both panel environments, i think you all are crazy for using the VC, and you think all of us are crazy for using the 2D, can we leave it at that?

"There are many perks to both panel environments, i think you all are crazy for using the VC, and you think all of us are crazy for using the 2D, can we leave it at that?"The problem is people aren't leaving it at that. People are acting childish saying that the refuse to buy the J41 because it has no 2s panel and that they will not support the MDG 737 NG 2.0 if it doesn't have a 2d panel even though it's been said countless times by PMDG that their airliner simulations (including the 737 NG 2.0) will have 2d panels. What people really need to do is respect PMDG's decision to not put the 2d in the J41 and understand that they will provide 2d panels in their airliner simulations. If a 2d is that important to the purchaser, then simply don't buy it or buy it and try to learn flying in the VC. I enjoy both myself and while it took a little getting used to, I love flying in the VC and I don't even own TrackIR. I understand that everyone has different tastes and I do respect that, but posting negative comments on the boards isn't going to help. If people NEED to be vocal about it, take the time to write up a useful constructive critisism for the PMDG. I think the team is well away by this point that people like both, and I am sure they will think about this for their future endevors.Chad