...so they still can deleting or even editing your own post without telling you what they want to modify.

Bejamin, the post you originally said was deleted, was not. A simple forum search revealed it here. Further posts within this thread were deleted because of your incessant complaining about PMDG policy.Here is something from the pinned post of PMDG Forum rules at the top of this forum:The moderators are here to keep the conversation within boundaries as established by PMDG, this policy post, and AVSim's user policies. To the extent that they take action their decisions are final. Discussion of moderator actions are not welcome in the forum.

I hope in some months the PMDG supremacy position will be over.

You can wish for the downfall of PMDG all you like, but this forum is for PMDG product discussion and related topics. Any further posts from you complaining about forum policy will immediately be deleted without explanation or discussion.

I don't understand the need to whine about these kinds of issues... We're talking about a flight simulator here people!Now, back to tuning those dials and pulling on the yoke.

Hi Victor,We're talking about France (Paris). But I am pretty sure our cousins from Quebec say "Tabernacle" - not tabarnac - (I just checked, it's the same word in English).Kind regards,Bruno

LOL! I was using the "phonetic" (sp?) spelling.

The problem is people aren't leaving it at that. People are acting childish saying that the refuse to buy the J41 because it has no 2s panel ....If a 2d is that important to the purchaser, then simply don't buy it or buy it and try to learn flying in the VC. Chad

I don't think it's childish not to buy the JS41 because it lacks a feature that I'd like to have. I think it's just a decision. There are probably things you haven't purchased because they don't meet your desires/requirements. I see no problem with that.With regard to your second point above - well, yes, isn't that what I'm doing? Simply not buying it? I am in no way criticising the JS41 or PMDG's decision on how to make it.I gave a lot of thought to trying the VC environment and learning how to use it. In the end I made a decision that I didn't want to. That's all. I wouldn't dream of, nor ever have, criticised anyone for doing different. Regardless of the future of FS, I have 2 superb PMDG products (744 & MD-11 for FS9) I will continue to recommend PMDG product to everyone and, most important of all, will continue to use these excellent sims that provide outstanding value for money. If and when PMDG produce another product that I want, I'll buy it in a flash, if not, no probs, I'll just continue to be one of many satisfied PMDG customers.I have no argument with VC users, but I don't like being told what to do! That doesn't apply to you Chad.

I just want to thank everyone for making a topic about nothing into 8 pages of entertainment! :)Thank you all for the great reading ;)

Gavin,I said nothing about it being childish not buying a product. I did say that it was childish to post in a thread that one refuses to buy it because it lacks 2d. If you don't want to buy it fine, but making a post about not supporting PMDG because of a lack of 2d panel is what is childish IMHO. The post saying you're not purchasing the product is what isn't necessary. What good will come from that?Chad

"I hope in some months the PMDG supremacy position will be over"Would that really make you happy? Maybe if you flew the j41 instead of complaining about the lack of 2d panel you would find "like alot of us" that you will soon get used to it and really enjoy it!

When did PMDG become an Art institute? I dont know about you but i buy PMDG products for training and to learn new things. Not to have a pretty little model in my hangar. @ Strider, ive already come to that conclusion. :( I, personally, have a beef with no man on this forum. We all have our preferences, and i respect them fully. But when you guys come on here and say the VC is more realistic than a 2D and somehow offers a new feeling or reality, you guys are kidding yourselves. Ive been flying for years, and i can tell you, the VC is actually counter intuitive. First off, its not a 3D environment. Its a fancy rendering of polygons to make you feel like its a 3D environment. Second, the VC often distracts me (not sure about you guys) when flying. In flight school for the airlines, i was always taught that if something distracts you, get rid of it. You are in the cockpit to fly the plane, not to look around the cockpit and stare at your empty F/O seat. Third, the VC seems to be more of a gimmick to people who enjoy the looking around part of Flight Simming rather than the actual Simming. I can tell you, that no pilot has to have a plastic thing strapped to their head, while they memorize keyboard assignments and try to get the mouse to hover over an active click spot in the VC. In the 2D, everything is there.... much like in the real world. The only thing you have to do is click semi-icons to bring up different panels. You may be saying "Well ha! There are steps involved in 2D panel operations too!!" and you would be right. But in the real world, we are taught to break portions of the cockpit into sections. It makes life much easier and allows a better ability for the student to learn. There are many perks to both panel environments, i think you all are crazy for using the VC, and you think all of us are crazy for using the 2D, can we leave it at that?

Wow, I disagree with about almost everything in your post. Firstly, the VC is most definitely a "3D environment". Short of teleporting into an actual flight deck, every video-game designer will tell you that it is a 3D environment. Essentially, everything on a computer screen is "2D", with "fancy rendering of polygons". Your argument is completely moot. A VC allows a user to pan, or view through a simulated environemnt that is rendered to represent a 3D space. Saying that it is not "actually 3D" is like saying, "your actually not flying a real plane". Secondly, your comment: "You are in the cockpit to fly the plane, not to look around the cockpit and stare at your empty F/O seat.", to me - makes little to no sense. LOL - how do you fly a plane without looking at the flight deck? When I am flying real aircraft - the main purpose of the flight deck is to look at the various components that serves its purpose. Panning to find an instrument panel or gauge, lets say a fuel pump - often times, will pull my head away from a forward view (in real flight, and in simulation), to complete the task-at-hand. In the argument of "realism", you really think that pointing to some fictitious click spot that brings up a pop-up window to display a fuel pump is more realistic than having to actually look for one? On top of that - you go on to say that the 2D panel has everything you need - right there...Really? What about the click-spots and pop-up windows? Lastly, your argument that "no pilot has a plastic thing strapped on his head" really makes no sense. Of course they don't. Are they actively trying to simulate flying a plane on a computer game? NO! They are actually, really flying a plane!! How does that, in any way contribute to a discussion regarding the rendering of panel states? Of course pilots don't memorize key commands - they don't have to champ, they're not flying with keyboards. I feel like I've aged 10 years with this thread...

Wow, I disagree with about almost everything in your post. Firstly, the VC is most definitely a "3D environment". Short of teleporting into an actual flight deck, every video-game designer will tell you that it is a 3D environment. Essentially, everything on a computer screen is "2D", with "fancy rendering of polygons". Your argument is completely moot. A VC allows a user to pan, or view through a simulated environemnt that is rendered to represent a 3D space. Saying that it is not "actually 3D" is like saying, "your actually not flying a real plane". Secondly, your comment: "You are in the cockpit to fly the plane, not to look around the cockpit and stare at your empty F/O seat.", to me - makes little to no sense. LOL - how do you fly a plane without looking at the flight deck? When I am flying real aircraft - the main purpose of the flight deck is to look at the various components that serves its purpose. Panning to find an instrument panel or gauge, lets say a fuel pump - often times, will pull my head away from a forward view (in real flight, and in simulation), to complete the task-at-hand. In the argument of "realism", you really think that pointing to some fictitious click spot that brings up a pop-up window to display a fuel pump is more realistic than having to actually look for one? On top of that - you go on to say that the 2D panel has everything you need - right there...Really? What about the click-spots and pop-up windows? Lastly, your argument that "no pilot has a plastic thing strapped on his head" really makes no sense. Of course they don't. Are they actively trying to simulate flying a plane on a computer game? NO! They are actually, really flying a plane!! How does that, in any way contribute to a discussion regarding the rendering of panel states? Of course pilots don't memorize key commands - they don't have to champ, they're not flying with keyboards. I feel like I've aged 10 years with this thread...

Yep...the usual replies to those of us who PREFER 2D. S-I-G-H!. I think us 2D'ers could have scripted your response years ago...as we have heard it all before...over and over and over again.Read my lips..."WE DON'T CARE...WE DON'T LIKE VC!". It's that damn simple. I don't care what devices you use, I don't care what you find erotic about VC...we simply don't like to fly that way. ##### is so hard to understand about that? Why do you feel you need to begin a "VC intervention" for those of us who hate it??? Go fly your VC aircraft and STFU. We will continue to state our position, as is our right, that we are not paying for VC only aircraft. Why does that simple statement bother you people so much? Why is it you feel we are not allowed to make our preferences heard? Your insults and BS logic are falling on deaf ears here...do you realize that? I don't care anything about VC...I will NEVER care anything about VC and your continued insults as to my intelligence because I refuse to use VC are becoming old and lame...they have been the same for many, many years. GET OVER YOURSELVES! We fly 2D because THAT is what we enjoy. We will not buy VC only products. We will gladly watch you sail off into the sunset with those same products. We realize completely that we are at the end of the FS era...no one will make an FS11 in the foreseeable future. If you polled the 2D'ers I would wager around 70% to 80% don't use FSX. We don't "DO" eye candy...we do performance and reality. I don't care to count the rivets on my aircraft...I want it to fly correctly and be able to do that without any BS, performance robbing VC, which I'll never use. You lemmings feel free to jump off the cliff every FS season. I'll sit back with my extreme performance with FS9 and 2D...and LMAO. What are you going to do in the next years? There will be no FS11...what cliff are you going to jump off of next year?LOFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Oh, yeah...the 777 thing. Why would anyone spend time on an FS 777? PSS made an excellent one, which I have, and I don't see how it can be much improved on...other than removing the 2D panel and making it an "Up to date, modern era, screw the 2D" product??? PSS 2D panels are, by far, the best I've seen. Much better than pmdg or anyone else for clarity, sharpness, etc.

Victor,We get it. You don't like it, and you're not going to buy anything that doesn't have a 2D cockpit. Noted.For all the "STFU's" you keep throwing out, you should probably take your own advice.Nick

Victor,We get it. You don't like it, and you're not going to buy anything that doesn't have a 2D cockpit. Noted.For all the "STFU's" you keep throwing out, you should probably take your own advice.Nick

Lool. That just about sums it up doesn't it?I really don't see any more use for this thread...A minority of people here don't like the changes PMDG made. Boo-Hoo. Life goes on... as does PMDG.

Yep...the usual replies to those of us who PREFER 2D. S-I-G-H!. I think us 2D'ers could have scripted your response years ago...as we have heard it all before...over and over and over again.Read my lips..."WE DON'T CARE...WE DON'T LIKE VC!". It's that damn simple. I don't care what devices you use, I don't care what you find erotic about VC...we simply don't like to fly that way. ##### is so hard to understand about that? Why do you feel you need to begin a "VC intervention" for those of us who hate it??? Go fly your VC aircraft and STFU. We will continue to state our position, as is our right, that we are not paying for VC only aircraft. Why does that simple statement bother you people so much? Why is it you feel we are not allowed to make our preferences heard?Your insults and BS logic are falling on deaf ears here...do you realize that? I don't care anything about VC...I will NEVER care anything about VC and your continued insults as to my intelligence because I refuse to use VC are becoming old and lame...they have been the same for many, many years. GET OVER YOURSELVES! We fly 2D because THAT is what we enjoy. We will not buy VC only products. We will gladly watch you sail off into the sunset with those same products. We realize completely that we are at the end of the FS era...no one will make an FS11 in the foreseeable future. If you polled the 2D'ers I would wager around 70% to 80% don't use FSX. We don't "DO" eye candy...we do performance and reality. I don't care to count the rivets on my aircraft...I want it to fly correctly and be able to do that without any BS, performance robbing VC, which I'll never use.You lemmings feel free to jump off the cliff every FS season. I'll sit back with my extreme performance with FS9 and 2D...and LMAO.What are you going to do in the next years? There will be no FS11...what cliff are you going to jump off of next year?LOFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Oh, yeah...the 777 thing. Why would anyone spend time on an FS 777? PSS made an excellent one, which I have, and I don't see how it can be much improved on...other than removing the 2D panel and making it an "Up to date, modern era, screw the 2D" product??? PSS 2D panels are, by far, the best I've seen. Much better than pmdg or anyone else for clarity, sharpness, etc.

Hey man... I honestly think your being a little narrowminded here... As well as a little harsh... I'm getting a strange Vibe from you man.... Maybe you should just try the VC and a track IR thingy just one more time before you blow a few more blood vessels near your temples. Everything will be OK... I promise. Take a deep breath in.... Now out... Doesn't that feel better... Here's a website for ya... Here And one more that will really help ya Here.JB

Victor, You're not doing very well as far as getting the point across. Child-like screaming goes nowhere in life.JB, Nameless (kwikat), and Nick.Feeding trolls just means they'll try and steal your coins next time you try and cross their river.Don't feed them, or give them anything notworthy. It's really just as poor that the three of you had anything at all to actually say to him.all said, I enjoy the use of 2D panels, I also dislike that I can't get decent framerates in FSX without turning all the Autogen off and significantly sacrificing what I drool over *The beauty of 4096x4096 textures, etc. etc. and so forth*.Because it runs better, and has no temptations involved besides my addons and looks *Reasonably* nice. I've decided to stay with FS9. Gives me an excuse to play with the A320 too ;).Remember the lesson, Don't Feed the Trolls :( Ryan.

JB, Nameless (kwikat), and Nick.Feeding trolls just means they'll try and steal your coins next time you try and cross their river. Don't feed them, or give them anything notworthy. It's really just as poor that the three of you had anything at all to actually say to him.

:(

Victor, You're not doing very well as far as getting the point across. Child-like screaming goes nowhere in life.

:( :( Couldn't resist the temptation? LOL!Nick

Yep...the usual replies to those of us who PREFER 2D. S-I-G-H!. I think us 2D'ers could have scripted your response years ago...as we have heard it all before...over and over and over again.Read my lips..."WE DON'T CARE...WE DON'T LIKE VC!". It's that damn simple. I don't care what devices you use, I don't care what you find erotic about VC...we simply don't like to fly that way. ##### is so hard to understand about that? Why do you feel you need to begin a "VC intervention" for those of us who hate it??? Go fly your VC aircraft and STFU. We will continue to state our position, as is our right, that we are not paying for VC only aircraft. Why does that simple statement bother you people so much? Why is it you feel we are not allowed to make our preferences heard?

We, we, we, we? Who's 'we'? I see just YOU... screaming and yelling.. ;)