See, Ron, having read so many threads on the FS9vsFSX addon sales something starts being clear to me.I will try to remain objective though I cannot be totally unbiased since I'm a passionate FS9er, right? :( I'll get it in points to get my thoughts straight and make the reading easy:1. 'FS9 users don't buy new products'I spend around 200-300 euro a year on FS9 addons on average. This is my hard-earned money and I find it difficult not to be irritated when I read someone (not even a developer) stating 'FS9 people DON'T buy addons'. No more comments on it then.2. 'FS9 users are more often pirates and use torrents'I don't know if it's true. But since there are still more FS9 users (users, not saying buyers) so maybe that would be logical? No matter how terrible it is, of course.In addition I don't want to be punished for others' sins. My first officer is my credit card, not John Torrent.3. 'Companies who stop making FS9 products are wrong'No, they're not. Although it is always a pity for me, FS9er, I am sure they know what they are doing (even though some later change their minds, lol).I wouldn't get too much into financial/marketing discussions with professional developers. Each to their own. Respect!For me it's enough that many known developers (including Aerosoft - an audible FSX supporter) still release a lot of great stuff for FS9, mostly airports.4. 'FS9 is the simulator of the past and FSX is the simulator of the future'False and false. Both FS9 and FSX are the simulators of this time, which so unfortunately split us into two groups. Groups that sometimes fight for no reason.The ACES studio has gone and if there is any simulator of the future that will be something else.5. 'Even with sliders to the left FSX looks better than FS9 with maxed sliders'Everyone has his or her own eyes to jugde. As far as my eyes are concerned, I disagree with this popular statement.Of course FSX looks better than FS9, with the higher resolution textures and mesh, anyway visuals were the most improved part of the sim.But with the addons I have, FS9 looks veeeery good to me. For my way of simflying I find it very nice and have no need of switching to FSX, really. I am not trying to prove anyone to be wrong. I would be wrong to do it. That is simply what I feel, kill me if you don't like it.6. 'FS9 is better for heavy metal flying and FSX is better for low&slow VFR'To a degree that might have something do do with the truth. Heavy metal is usually conected with mega airports full of AI traffic, complex panels with high fidelity gauges, flying through dense HD clouds, downloading live data, etc. This is sometimes hard even for FS9. All the pretty details FSX offers you on the ground are then not so visible and important for many people, including me. On the other hand, when I tried FSX flying a Piper 3000ft over the ground, I did enjoy the detailed ground textures, more trees and moving cars, etc. It was nice, I can understand it easily. VFR is based on visual reference, so FSX seems better for this purpose.To summarize, I dream of a day when the fact that you fly FS9 or FSX becomes a small technical detail, like the different models of monitors you all are gazing at now. We are all an MSFS community of passionate armchair pilots, supporting each other and sharing valuable knowlegde. I love that!Too much time and key hits have lately been wasted on trying to prove the ones using another platform are wrong on this or that. What for?Does it make us feel any better?And to developers:You will continue making FS9 addons? Great! Thank you so much, I will support you with my money, if I like the product, and many others will too.You drop FS9 and make FSX only addons - fine, I may be sad to lose you (PMDG for instance) but I respect your decision and will fly your great existing FS9 addons for years to come. Good luck with your business, frankly!

Excellent post Rafal!1. FS9 users do purchase new products, just not to the extent that FSX users do.2. Thieves steal without regard to sim version because they are thieves and that's what thieves do..3. Companies who are phasing out FS9 production do so for valid business reasons.4. Both are valid and viable simulators now and for the near term.5. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.6. Both do a great job be it high or low on decent hardware.We share your dream...Thank you for one of the most even headed and even handed posts on this subject and thank you for the respectful viewpoint as well. :(

I can only speak for myself, but even though I only fly FS9 now I don't buy that many add-ons now.The biggest reason is that FS9 is already filled with so many great payware and freeware add-ons, that I don't feel that need to add more to it unless it is something I'm really interested in. While I still love adding things to FS9, I don't have that overwhelming need to. Honestly I find myself passing on sceneries and other things simply because there's a decent freeware version available or really for other reasons I can't fully explain. Take the economy, plus the uncertainty of flightsim as a whole, and my purchasing behavior has changed for sure. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't imagine I'm alone in this.I find myself "deciding" to buy something for a long time. Thinking about it for a day or two turns into months. When I flew FSX, I was a lot more interested in add-ons simply because I didn't have much in it.

I think there are several big reasons why we still stick to FS9:1) We have spent far too much money, time and effort to enhance the FS9 experience. I have thousands of AI aircraft, (250+ repaints on the AIA B738 alone) Loads of addons (e.g. RFP merges, scenery) that won't work in FSX, hundreds of hours worth of effort arranging all the addons, diagnosing CTDs, manually adding navaids etc. Not to mention the money spent on payware.2) FSX still can't be run smoothly with full sliders on even the fastest machines without major overclocking to at least 4GHz, plus the costs of upgrading the coolers, which can run into $100 or more for water cooling. Imagine landing a early FSX addon e.g. PMDG 747-400X on an Aerosoft Mega Airport with 100% AI traffic on a day with lots of low level REX cumulus clouds, with full sliders, 1680x1050 and AA+AF+Bloom. FSX will turn into a slideshow even on i7 Extremes.3) With FSX you have to pay for all of your existing FS9 addons again, sometimes they're even more expensive than the FS9 versions.

Rafal,beautifully written,Sir.cheersJP.

Rafal,beautifully written,Sir.cheersJP.

Rafal I have been trying to sum things up as you have in the forum for so long.FS9 is six years going on seven years old. FSX is 4 years going on 5 years old.In the computer and software world they both should have been in the grave years ago. Remember ACES use to produce a new sim every two years. They both will be around for some time. If a new good sim does not come on the market then FS9 users will final get FSX and FSX users will final be at the level all the FS9 users are with addons, freeware and payware. Carl Perry 7 + year sim pilot

again, I don't understand why there is this reasoning that a company (no matter how small or big) that decides to stop making a certain product is so flawed? They can not go after every market? Who are we to judge, for example, a smaller fs developer that decided to concentrate on a few products rather than a multitude? Every company (big or small) has it's limitations in what they are going to attempt to provide. Its obvious that all fs developers are different and have limited resources. And if a small company can not provide a wide array of products, due to limited resources, and have to pick where their strengths are, they should not be labled as flawed or poor decisions. In fact, I'm sure they would all love to pursue every avenue of income generation but simply can not. And I think bashing a certain fs developer for not producing fs9 products anymore is simply ignorant to the complex nature of running a company. And then to take it one step further, as I have read in this thread by some, to suggest there is some other agenda is also a little far fetched.Give them a break. Are people actually suggesting that if every plane is not made available for FS9, than the third party developers are letting "us" all down? Lets be a little reasonable. I challenge anyone to tabulate the FS9 offerings on sites like PCAviator or other flight sim online companies and come back and tell us that there isnt proper coverage of add on planes for FS9. The reason no body will do this excercise is because it would take too long. And the crazy thing is that despite all this back and forth in this thread, you and I can go out today and purchase NEW fs9 planes, maybe not as many as we could 5 years ago, but c'mon, there is plenty of stuff to fly and buy still. And it's to the credit of the third party developers that made and make FS9 great.

I can tell that you haven't read every post in this thread (which I don't blame you...it's becoming a novel.) You are basically saying the same thing that I have said throughout this forum...only with slightly different wording.Never did I "bash" a developer for deciding to not develop for fs9 anymore. Quite the contrary...I have stated several times that it is their business, and they will do what they see fit. I take no quarrels with that. I have even commended Ron for taking the time to come on to this forum and stating the developers angle. I do have an issue when a developer states that the reasoning for dropping development is because of lack of sales on one item, or they give some other reason that insults the intelligence of my 4 year old. Especially when their is solid evidence that proves their resoning wrong. Now granted, they don't have to give any reasoning at all. But they do, so they are the ones that let the cat out of the bag...not the customer. PMDG came on and said that they will no longer develop any more aircraft for fs9. They also stated that it was doubtful that the NGX would even make it (still waiting for the man to get back to us on that one.) They knew it was going to create a fire storm. Especially since the 737 was going to be developed for fs9 as well. (On that note, I do commend Eaglesoft for following through on their word of completing development for fs9.) Now, if you even start thinking about fs9 on their forum, the post gets deleted and the thread gets locked.Some payware developers do have an agenda regarding fs9 development. CaptainSim made it very clear in the fs9 757 forum a while back. They stopped development of fs9 in an effort to persuade their customers to switch to fsx. In their words regarding an update to the 757: "No, we just "gave up" on outdated and having no prospects FS version (FS9) and sincerely hope all of you will use FSX one day. " A very good read

I can tell that you haven't read every post in this thread (which I don't blame you...it's becoming a novel.) You are basically saying the same thing that I have said throughout this forum...only with slightly different wording.Never did I "bash" a developer for deciding to not develop for fs9 anymore. Quite the contrary...I have stated several times that it is their business, and they will do what they see fit. I take no quarrels with that. I have even commended Ron for taking the time to come on to this forum and stating the developers angle. I do have an issue when a developer states that the reasoning for dropping development is because of lack of sales on one item, or they give some other reason that insults the intelligence of my 4 year old. Especially when their is solid evidence that proves their resoning wrong. Now granted, they don't have to give any reasoning at all. But they do, so they are the ones that let the cat out of the bag...not the customer. PMDG came on and said that they will no longer develop any more aircraft for fs9. They also stated that it was doubtful that the NGX would even make it (still waiting for the man to get back to us on that one.) They knew it was going to create a fire storm. Especially since the 737 was going to be developed for fs9 as well. (On that note, I do commend Eaglesoft for following through on their word of completing development for fs9.) Now, if you even start thinking about fs9 on their forum, the post gets deleted and the thread gets locked.Some payware developers do have an agenda regarding fs9 development. CaptainSim made it very clear in the fs9 757 forum a while back. They stopped development of fs9 in an effort to persuade their customers to switch to fsx. In their words regarding an update to the 757: "No, we just "gave up" on outdated and having no prospects FS version (FS9) and sincerely hope all of you will use FSX one day. " A very good read

Here is an additional quote from that same string by CS - "Unfortunately we cannot afford working for two quite different platforms anymore. So development for FS9 is over (long time ago), all FS9 titles are at bargain sale for 9.99 as is. There is no way back, we have to move forward."I guess I just don't find this type of statement offensive or to represent flawed logic - I'll leave it there (and without an emoticon)Good discussion - Thanks

I think (oh boy,I guess th

It seems we have another developer that's went FSX only. CLS has decided to make their latest MD80 FSX only. You have pretty much bet the course of future development from this company. There goes my hopes of an updated A310 from them for FS9... :( "be happy with what's offered today for FS9 because the future is looking bleaker and bleaker"

That may be, but the FSX crowd will be w/out at least one customer as many of us will not dump hundreds of dollars and more for the sake of a new acrft or some other add-on. As much as I want the PMDG 777 for example it will never be in my hanger if not for FS9 as well. For those who spend money on new systems like they would on candy, they will always get the new stuff and will be looking at more and more money all the time. Sorry, I can only justify so much before it becomes a never ending cycle. I am more then happy w/ all the add-on's I currently have and really am not interested in feeding the elephant forever. Yes FS9 may not meet all the wishes that FSX does to many, but FSX does not give me cause to start all over, and I mean from scratch. When FSX runs it's course as it will, what then? Oh I know, we start all over...... :(

Here is an additional quote from that same string by CS - "Unfortunately we cannot afford working for two quite different platforms anymore. So development for FS9 is over (long time ago), all FS9 titles are at bargain sale for 9.99 as is. There is no way back, we have to move forward."I guess I just don't find this type of statement offensive or to represent flawed logic - I'll leave it there (and without an emoticon)Good discussion - Thanks

Just to clear something up. My flawed logic statement was in regards to PMDG's reasoning. The CaptainSim example was in response to your "agenda" paragraph. CaptainSim had an agenda. CaptainSim really took advantage of people, and then left them in the dust. And their response was "if you don't like it, switch to FSX." There are examples of this all over their forums.

See, Ron, having read so many threads on the FS9vsFSX addon sales something starts being clear to me.I will try to remain objective though I cannot be totally unbiased since I'm a passionate FS9er, right? :( I'll get it in points to get my thoughts straight and make the reading easy:1. 'FS9 users don't buy new products'I spend around 200-300 euro a year on FS9 addons on average. This is my hard-earned money and I find it difficult not to be irritated when I read someone (not even a developer) stating 'FS9 people DON'T buy addons'. No more comments on it then.2. 'FS9 users are more often pirates and use torrents'I don't know if it's true. But since there are still more FS9 users (users, not saying buyers) so maybe that would be logical? No matter how terrible it is, of course.In addition I don't want to be punished for others' sins. My first officer is my credit card, not John Torrent.3. 'Companies who stop making FS9 products are wrong'No, they're not. Although it is always a pity for me, FS9er, I am sure they know what they are doing (even though some later change their minds, lol).I wouldn't get too much into financial/marketing discussions with professional developers. Each to their own. Respect!For me it's enough that many known developers (including Aerosoft - an audible FSX supporter) still release a lot of great stuff for FS9, mostly airports.4. 'FS9 is the simulator of the past and FSX is the simulator of the future'False and false. Both FS9 and FSX are the simulators of this time, which so unfortunately split us into two groups. Groups that sometimes fight for no reason.The ACES studio has gone and if there is any simulator of the future that will be something else.5. 'Even with sliders to the left FSX looks better than FS9 with maxed sliders'Everyone has his or her own eyes to jugde. As far as my eyes are concerned, I disagree with this popular statement.Of course FSX looks better than FS9, with the higher resolution textures and mesh, anyway visuals were the most improved part of the sim.But with the addons I have, FS9 looks veeeery good to me. For my way of simflying I find it very nice and have no need of switching to FSX, really. I am not trying to prove anyone to be wrong. I would be wrong to do it. That is simply what I feel, kill me if you don't like it.6. 'FS9 is better for heavy metal flying and FSX is better for low&slow VFR'To a degree that might have something do do with the truth. Heavy metal is usually conected with mega airports full of AI traffic, complex panels with high fidelity gauges, flying through dense HD clouds, downloading live data, etc. This is sometimes hard even for FS9. All the pretty details FSX offers you on the ground are then not so visible and important for many people, including me. On the other hand, when I tried FSX flying a Piper 3000ft over the ground, I did enjoy the detailed ground textures, more trees and moving cars, etc. It was nice, I can understand it easily. VFR is based on visual reference, so FSX seems better for this purpose.To summarize, I dream of a day when the fact that you fly FS9 or FSX becomes a small technical detail, like the different models of monitors you all are gazing at now. We are all an MSFS community of passionate armchair pilots, supporting each other and sharing valuable knowlegde. I love that!Too much time and key hits have lately been wasted on trying to prove the ones using another platform are wrong on this or that. What for?Does it make us feel any better?And to developers:You will continue making FS9 addons? Great! Thank you so much, I will support you with my money, if I like the product, and many others will too.You drop FS9 and make FSX only addons - fine, I may be sad to lose you (PMDG for instance) but I respect your decision and will fly your great existing FS9 addons for years to come. Good luck with your business, frankly!

Well said Rafal, what a superb post i naprawde swietnie piszes po angielsku.Oh and by the way, I have to pop out to do the shopping shortly, but on my return this Rhino is going to the FlyTampa website to purchase Vienna V2 for FS9. I believe I also get a copy for FSX as well - which will be nice if I ever bother to move to FSX.

FS9 is six years going on seven years old. FSX is 4 years going on 5 years old.

Not intending to be picky (even though it's gonna look that way :( ) but actual release dates were FS2004; 28th July 2003FSX: 17th October 2006So FS9 is indeed about to hit it's 7th birthday but FSX is 3 year going on 4, not 4 going on 5 years old.:)

I am not a big fan of "lite" aircraft so it's no big loss really.Apart from eye candy kiddies, who really cares if the CLS MD-80 is FSX only when we have the legendary Leonardo Maddog!?

Another 50 year old "kiddie" here who doesn't have the time nor inclination to devote to full systems right now.I guess I'm not a "real" virtual pilot. :(

This thread is starting to remind me of one of those healthcare town hall meetings. No matter how many examples that the general population makes in contrast to said developers reasoning, they don't care. They have made up their minds, and that is that.

Yup, my hobby is screwing w/ me and now my health care.....you could not be more right :(