... I correct with Aileron only ...

What are you correcting?

Doesn't show a lot of knowledge and qualification if you argue about the realism of flight simulation software, comparing it with a less than perfect IGS approach into Kai Tak on a poor quality youtube video... Especially if you've never flown a real airliner before...Cheers,Markus

I amnt Comparing a youtube video with the FS.How whould i fly a real airlienr when i amnt real pilot?isnt it true waht i say?it had 2 planes crashed because of the ruder was defelcted.the pilot moved the ruder to the left but the ruder tunred right and they muved it further to th eleft whic resulatet in a full ruder fight position and bringed the plane in a nose dive.it happend on 2 planes and they both crashed.if im wrong then please explain how it realy works

What are you correcting?

Paul - DriftYurob - What your describing is the rudder hardovers on the classic 737 - although some doubt the real cause of those crashes are really resolved the 'official statement is faulty servos due to cold temperatures. I'm sure someone more technical could explain in more detail.BTW if you kick full rudder on the PMDG 747 it will begin to roll over like the real thing, that's one of the first things that impressed me about the product as no other payware I had flown realistically simulated that.It's kinda funny when people go on about Scarebus all the time yet nobody mentions the serious rudder problems on the classic 737 http://www.airlinesafety.com/faq/B-737Rudder.htmRegards

Ahhh.But is that on other planes so too?

I personally do not use the rudder in crosswinds until I de crab for touch down.

I have zero real world flying experience, but in FS9 I have spent endless hours flying that Kai Tak IGS 13 approach, using the PMDG Boeing fleet, the Embraer 170, and the Level D 767, with Saitek rudder pedals, a CH flight yoke and a Go Flight throttle quadrant to enhance the tactile realism of my hand-flying.After insane numbers of hours of focused experimentation to determine the most appropriate aileron and rudder application technique suited to each of the above aircraft, I found that the LD 767 was entirely unique in its rudder response, in that unlike all the other aircraft which negotiated that hard right turn most efficiently under moderate to subtle right rudder and measured right aileron application, the LD 767 required FULL right rudder as the Kai Tak checkerboard loomed into view at 500 feet AGL, coupled with a fleeting momentary right aileron input to snap the bird into a 30-degree bank, followed by a gradual transition into a careful balance of neutral aileron and opposed ( left ) aileron to level off as the 767 whipped over that highway just before the runway threshold, where that full rudder was finally eased off.Handled correctly in the above described sequence, the LD767 became absolutely predictable and smooth as silk in its turning response into Kai Tak 13, and it did so with a stable precision that I simply could not ever match using any other aircraft in my FS9 heavy metal fleet.Tony Selario

What are you correcting?

Paul - Drift...

Are you trying to control drift while keeping the nose pointed down the centerline? As you have probably found, it is difficult and dangerous and requires the use of rudder to do it right. This is a variation of a sideslip approach where aileron is used to bank the aircraft and counter rudder is used to cancel out the turning moment. It has the advantage of massively increasing drag so is useful for an emergancy landing when you are coming in too hot, but it is complicated and risky and uncomfortable so is not usually recommended. Much, much easier (and this is what the AP does) is to simply point the nose upwind as you turn onto final, if you drift downwind of the centerline, point the nose further upwind, if you drift upwind, point the nose closer to the runway, then, only if you think you need to, use rudder as you flare to point the nose back down the line. This way the aircraft is in its normal flight regime at all times and you have far fewer (and simpler) corrections to make. You can use a very rough rule of thumb to plan your turn onto final where degrees upwind = half final crosswind component.

use rudder as you flare to point the nose back down the line

Paul,Then how are you going to stop the drift?Bill Bridges

Paul,Then how are you going to stop the drift?Bill Bridges

What drift? There is none, unless you start to de-crab too early. If all is right then the aircraft's mass will keep you aligned with the runway until touchdown.Regards,Markus

What drift? There is none, unless you start to de-crab too early. If all is right then the aircraft's mass will keep you aligned with the runway until touchdown.Regards,Markus

Markus,I've been a commerical pilot for over 40 years and I can assure you that there will be drift. Over.Bill Bridges

Markus,I've been a commerical pilot for over 40 years and I can assure you that there will be drift. Over.Bill Bridges

I think what Markus and Bill are both saying is: as long as there is a cross-wind component, there is drift. The stronger the cross-wind component, the trickier the timing for decrabbing. And of course, inertia plays a role too. Decrab too early and you'll miss the centerline - or maybe the runway altogether.Decrab too late and you'll land ....still crabbed !Decrab at the right time and the plane will have very little time to drift.Bruno

Markus,I've been a commerical pilot for over 40 years and I can assure you that there will be drift. Over.Bill Bridges

Then you already know the answer. Why don't you share it?

Then you already know the answer. Why don't you share it?

Paul,It is obvious that you do not agree with what I am saying, which is fine. I have seen pilots use your technique with mixed results. The problem comes when the pilot misjudges the amount of rudder needed or runs out of rudder in a strong crosswind, then what? As I said earlier I have used the rudder to align the nose while lowering the upwind wing to stop the drift in everything I've flown DC-3s to DC-10 and will use it this afternoon.Paul, what is your aviation background? Bill Bridges

Bluestar when you are a pilot just one question:If you would put full ruder imput to the RH side of the plane and full aileron imput to the left would the plane still fly in heading or would the plane start to roll and crash?

I think rudder application during the late flare minimizes the drift because you are 20 ft or so from touchdown, but I have never learned this technique. I prefer to set up the cross control condition just before flare and done well the pitch change comes right after the roll input and it is all one fluid maneuver. Interesting topic, I am enjoying the different viewpoints and opinions.