Ron,I think the problem is the "bad apples" (without naming names, since Eaglesoft and ORBX are certainly not on the bad apple list). Members just don't know and there is no "bible" that says what company offers great support and what developer does not--except for these forums. Sometimes posting in a venue controlled by a developer leads to some really nasty answers. We have all seen it. There needs to be and will always need to be neutral ground where a customer can pop in and ask a question without being belittled or feeling "stupid". That's what these forums are for and that's why I will continue to support people who ask questions, when I can. I have been a developer for decades now, for several different companies--all of them leaders in their industry. That's in addition to providing support for the products I offer freely to this community.I also develop free software for children to use, and support that software on my own time:http://members.cox.net/cactus521/Both programs are used by schools and graphic design artists and are used to teach children how to use computers at an early age. I will stack my bona fides against anyone's and feel my opinion is just as valid as yours. Please refrain from the personal attacks in the future and only take issue with my opinions, not my experience.Regards,John

John I am in no way perosonally attacking you.Ron Hamilton

I like to hear of issues in an open forum so I can know what to expect before I go out and spend my hard earned money on a product where their support forum is locked and I can't even read it to find out what issues are still open and pending.

Ron-I would have to disagree. I would rather come here to one central location, avsim, and ask support questions because there is usually a quick response from someone with an answer and it takes very little time to post a question and get a response. Owning 100's of products it will take me 10 fold the time to dig up my name/passwords to a website I haven't visited in a year -and frankly with all the add ins I own-keeping track of every little patch, solution etc. becomes a full time job if I had to continually surf the individual sites. I'd rather come to one site (here) and find what I need which is the case 99% of the time.I have often wondered why on the other side of the coin when typically a patch/upgrade comes out-I learn about it by a post by a user on avsim or a headline on the avsim page. Rarely do I get an email from the manufacturer-why? All this info is given when the product is purchased.....I agree with your repugnance to pirates-but to assume someone asking a question on this forum is a pirate for doing so is simply not true. I consider avsim the best support forum out there, and believe that is a big part of its' service to simmers.

Thank you, Geofa! The password list usually (lol) takes longer to find than an answer from another member of AVSIM! As for the inference from another poster, that if you ask a support question on AVSIM...you might be a pirate.....well I asked a question on AVSIM a few days ago regarding the Lancair that I PURCHASED, like ALL the aviation software I own and enjoy. I totally agree with your comments, Geofa. I got a much appreciated answer inside of 5 minutes. That's not to say that I do not visit forum support sites for questions and/or patches, but rather that it is nice to feel that you can throw a quick one out there on AVSIM and usually get a response if not almost immediately.Cheers!Mitch

John I am in no way perosonally attacking you.Ron Hamilton

"You say your a dev?....for who? It seems you do not understand John's logic on support...."I see that as a personal attack.John

"You say your a dev?....for who? It seems you do not understand John's logic on support...."I see that as a personal attack.John

I was asking who you develop for, just a question. I also said that I didn't think you understand why John (ORBX) wants people to add order numbers to get support.Ron Hamilton

I also said that I didn't think you understand why John (ORBX) wants people to add order numbers to get support.Ron Hamilton

Orbx and others are moving to an order number registration process for one reason only. Sanity maintenance! Users have no idea what it is like to run a support forum where anonymous/fictitious registrations are the norm.Geof, we understand the time limitations and reg. info tracking but disagree that Avsim should be touted as a general product support forum.Reason? Because misinformation is provided and misguided users often bring more confusion to an issue. This causes mutltiple pages of discussion in order to "unconfuse" users.Another reason? No one knows a product better than the ones who developed it.

I was asking who you develop for, just a question. I also said that I didn't think you understand why John (ORBX) wants people to add order numbers to get support.Ron Hamilton

Responses by developers on their websites to honest questions are, at times, answered with some degree of harshness often including the suggestion to either search the forums or read the manual. The result for some is a reluctance to visit some of those forums in an effort to avoid useless, or worse, responses.Ban people from posting questions about paid products in this forum? Come on, really.

Orbx and others are moving to an order number registration process for one reason only. Sanity maintenance! Users have no idea what it is like to run a support forum where anonymous/fictitious registrations are the norm.Geof, we understand the time limitations and reg. info tracking but disagree that Avsim should be touted as a general product support forum.Reason? Because misinformation is provided and misguided users often bring more confusion to an issue. This causes mutltiple pages of discussion in order to "unconfuse" users.Another reason? No one knows a product better than the ones who developed it.

Good post. Speaking of "No one knows a product better than the ones who developed it"...think we'll see that CJ+1 V2.0 (ithink its called that) this year?Ron Hamilton

..........I find as I get older I want simplification-not more complication in my life-especially when I am supposed to be having fun.....

Amen to that, Geof! One year short of the big "six-oh", I find more and more that I'm only interested in simplicity, especially where having fun is concerned- I get enough complexity at work managing a large budget and economic forecasts! :)Thanks, Bruce.

Oh dear :)Well I did not mean to start WWIII with my suggestion to use our support forums. Couple of things:- Ron, despite his enthusiasm for Orbx (which is appreciated), does not represent our company view- In this age of cookies and browsers, I don't buy into any passwords/inconvenience arguments - I use many companies' support forums and they're one-click away :)- From a developer's perspective it's not nice to see a topic on AVSIM entitled "Lancair problems" in the the week of debut, particularly when the problem reported on AVSIM was already answered quickly on our support forums and would have taken the OP no more time to find his answer on our forums, versus posting here- If you are truly concerned about any potential warts or flaws in a product, surely the place to get a "feel" for that is the vendor's official support forum? That's what I do. On the flip side, we all understand that AVSIM is *the* go-to place for FS discussions on the net, so in some respects I do understand that a daily habit is hard to break :)

Speaking of simplicity, how about letting your browser remember your logins and passwords? I'd be lost if I had to remember every password for every site I access. For low security risks like FS forums, it'd be pretty silly not to use 'em because you couldn't remember a login. Let computers do what computer are good at, I say.

Good post. Speaking of "No one knows a product better than the ones who developed it"...think we'll see that CJ+1 V2.0 (ithink its called that) this year?Ron Hamilton

This thread has gone OT since the original issue is resolved. I don't speak for Orbx or any other devs. Just offered an opinion on what is involved with support forums.The answer is yes on the CJ1+ 2.0 but let's save that for another thread...

Speaking of simplicity, how about letting your browser remember your logins and passwords? I'd be lost if I had to remember every password for every site I access. For low security risks like FS forums, it'd be pretty silly not to use 'em because you couldn't remember a login. Let computers do what computer are good at, I say.

It seems Windows 7 has a nice little habit of erasing all your saved logins and passwords if there is a power outage or a system crash.Since either of those are likely to happen to at least me (today was 60 knt. winds and tornados and of course a power outage) that doesn't seem to work well for me....

It seems Windows 7 has a nice little habit of erasing all your saved logins and passwords if there is a power outage or a system crash.Since either of those are likely to happen to at least me (today was 60 knt. winds and tornados and of course a power outage) that doesn't seem to work well for me....

To get waaay OT, our altimeter was 28.36 today in Duluth lol!

It seems Windows 7 has a nice little habit of erasing all your saved logins and passwords if there is a power outage or a system crash.Since either of those are likely to happen to at least me (today was 60 knt. winds and tornados and of course a power outage) that doesn't seem to work well for me....

I use LastPass to help alleviate problems like that. http://www.lastpass.com/

To get waaay OT, our altimeter was 28.36 today in Duluth lol!

Wow, sounds like a good place to stay away from. :(