Hi,Quick question, though it doesn't directly relate to PMDG products; how do you chaps fly SIDS and STARS while using MS ATC? Is it even possible? Otherwise what do you guys use?ThanksIan Tyldesley

Hi,Quick question, though it doesn't directly relate to PMDG products; how do you chaps fly SIDS and STARS while using MS ATC? Is it even possible? Otherwise what do you guys use?ThanksIan Tyldesley

Well you could turn MS ATC off and fly your SID and STAR but you could also get Radar Contact.There you have the ability to choose in air, if you wanna fly your whole plan to FAF, or be directed by ATC whenreaching your last wp before the STAR. (In real world, it´s common to be directed by ATC though)

if you're trying to be realistic by using SIDs and STARs then it's time to stop using the FS ATC, which is probably the worst modeled thing in the entire program. Use radar contact or maybe take the plunge into VATSIM.

if you're trying to be realistic by using SIDs and STARs then it's time to stop using the FS ATC, which is probably the worst modeled thing in the entire program. Use radar contact or maybe take the plunge into VATSIM.

Or IVAO, if you are based in europe

Thank you to the people that have replied. I actually have Radar Contact but didn't like it although there is little doubt in my mind it is more realistic it's got a horrible interface and doesn't handle VFR traffic or taxing.My idea was to run MS ATC but only in non-iFR mode, that way it seems less intrusive. I am very much looking forward to the NGX, hope it works with FSPassengersThanksIan Tyldesley

Or IVAO, if you are based in europe

It's funny you say that, as I find that VATSIM has a rather large European contingent. S. America is really where IVAO has more traffic.

Ops didnt read above. Andrew Simmons

RC, VATSIM, turning it off, etc. are all options. But, if you do want to do them with it on, here's an approach I use from time to time:1. Plan your flight and insert the SID and STAR into the flight plan and save as an FS flight plan. Not that this may require you to figure out what runway you will be using at each end. 2. Get the usual "as filed" response when calling for clearance. 3. Input plan w/ procedures into FMC.3. Fly the SID. If its a Radar Vectored SID, it will just send you straight to the first point, which isn't ideal. The SIDs that have a few points along the way are probably a little better for this. Odds are you will fly something close to the SID with ATC. Altitudes may be wrong, but you can deal with them as you wish. In reality, many SIDs are ATC assigned altitude, so it isn't that unrealistic.4. Apporach and landing is tricky. If you're in a heavy, there may be step downs on the STAR before FS decides to bring you down. Request a lower cruise at that point. Cheating, but it works. As most of us know, the vecoring on approach sucks badly in FS. I usually end up flying the vectors initially (and, it isn't uncommon for a plane to be vectored aside on a STAR to allow passing of/by faster/slower traffic, although at the end, you would typically hear something like, "Turn right to heading 120, resume the arrival...") The reason I fly the vectors, at least initially, is after some goofy back and forth, they typically vector me back towards the STAR and I can often start flying it again. If its really off and I want to fly the STAR, I'll cancel IFR and just land. None of this is terribly realistic. But, in my mind none of the other options are perfect either.

RC, VATSIM, turning it off, etc. are all options. But, if you do want to do them with it on, here's an approach I use from time to time:1. Plan your flight and insert the SID and STAR into the flight plan and save as an FS flight plan. Not that this may require you to figure out what runway you will be using at each end. ....

In europe they assign a STAR mid-air tho, depending on the winds. There are runway specific STARS, at least in the areas I fly. I dont think its possible to get this experience using the built-in FSX ATC

It's funny you say that, as I find that VATSIM has a rather large European contingent. S. America is really where IVAO has more traffic.

Hi mate,I dont want to put a ivao vatsim debate here, they are both different networks, each have positives and negatives.However there is far more european traffic on ivao compared to vatsim,.. vatsim has more North American traffic

In europe they assign a STAR mid-air tho, depending on the winds. There are runway specific STARS, at least in the areas I fly. I dont think its possible to get this experience using the built-in FSX ATC

That is a good point. I do try to guess at runway-specific STARs (and there are a few in the U.S.), but it isn't perfect. But, there's a bunch you can't get in a sim. The eastern U.S. is pretty congested and you can get re-routes, especially if you're flying relative low, like in a turbo prop. But, if you know they are landing at Runway X at an airport in Europe you can make it kind of work, although parallel runways sort of make that difficult sometimes. Not perfect, but a usable work around that you can try.

Hi mate,I dont want to put a ivao vatsim debate here, they are both different networks, each have positives and negatives.However there is far more european traffic on ivao compared to vatsim,.. vatsim has more North American traffic

But the IVAP software truly is awful. You have planes everywhere where they are actually not, you have planes moving all over the runways and taxiways etc etc. It's a very unstable multiplayer environment.With VATSIM and FSInn everything about it is rock steady. FSInn is a marvellous piece of software that can model multiplayer aircraft's flaps, landing gear, taxi/landing/strobe lights being switched on/off, smoke from tyres on landing, and even contrails in the cruise (FSX Only).Happy Landings ;)

But the IVAP software truly is awful. You have planes everywhere where they are actually not, you have planes moving all over the runways and taxiways etc etc. It's a very unstable multiplayer environment.With VATSIM and FSInn everything about it is rock steady. FSInn is a marvellous piece of software that can model multiplayer aircraft's flaps, landing gear, taxi/landing/strobe lights being switched on/off, smoke from tyres on landing, and even contrails in the cruise (FSX Only).Happy Landings ;)

I like to reply on this but absolutely not to start an Ivao/Vatsim discussion. If you have planes everywhere (and that's only in FSX, not in FS9) you have to set your AI off in FSX itself. You'll still see other online pilots on the airport. All the other features are FSX related and not because of the Vatsim/Ivao software, they are indeed not visible in FS9, :(.

No Peter, I've been using Flight Sim long enough to know the difference between AI traffic and multiplayer traffic.I am talking about the stability of multiplayer aircraft within IVAP. I have used IVAP for a while on different computers and systems and it does exactly the same. i.e. an aircraft could be at the holding point, and then when you look again it is drifting all over the place, this problem is a little like Squawkbox for VATSIM where the aircraft are not "rock steady". In Squawkbox the models also sink below the runway on landing too before reappearing. Multiplayer aircraft within IVAP are not steady, this creates a very frustrating multiplayer environment.

ivap is rock steady, you wont get moving planes around the airport, check your set up